[JOHN G]

I tell you, throwing out baserunners aside, if you look at the statistics for all the great catchers of today, there is NO ONE that is even remotely close to Mike Piazza's stats!

funny, when you see them collectively...even guys that you might think have awesome numbers, like say, Pudge Rodrguez, don't even vaguely compare with Mike...

he has 6 seasons with over a hundred ribbies and 4 with over 90.....lifetime batting average of .319.....

an interesting pattern though is found on Posada's stats as for the 5th straight season, his RBI total has gone up.....

some guys shock you....Jason Kendall, for instance, his numbers are terrible!.....always considered him a great catcher though.......

unfortunately, these injuries of the last 2 seasons have taken a bite out of Mike's average, and for all we know, it will be downhill from here for him unless he switches over to either 1stBase or preferrably, DH in the American League.

 

[Cast-a-way]

John..if you say.."throwing out baserunners aside" that's like saying...he's a great Q.B. if you don't look at how many interceptions he threw.
Think of how many games he's cost teams by "turning a walk into a double". That was said by Bobby O. (former Met pitcher)last year as a guest announcer for a Met game.
They lost a PLAYOFF game to Atlanta a few years ago 1-0 when he sailed a ball into center field. The runner went to third...scored on a groundball out and Mets loss the game.....
I would take the other view point...I'd look at a catchers defensive stats FIRST then see what his average is...You'd win more games this way..

 

[JOHN G]

good point George......definitely a factor.....

as always, your logic is unassailable on these threads!!!

if we ever get on a boat again together, we can certainly shoot a lot of breeze on sports talk! LOL......

I believe our last outing was on Oscawanna with Woody, and that was a great day!

have to finally get on Tiorati with you for some structure fishing.....

 

[Cast-a-way]

It's a DONE deal for Tiorati...bring your calander to the RCC show and will set it up...(I'm buying a Coleman w/ a 54 thrust motor for next year from a buddy)...

That was a great day on the water with two CLASSY guys. I look foward to another one with you two.
Sports..fishing..Iona college...alot to talk about!!

 

[earthworm77]

John, I've always been a huge Piazza fan and agree with what you said. Piazza cannot be solely responsible for stolen bases though. His pitchers traditionally are slow delivery guys who do not keep runners on base. That will hurt anyone and it further exposes his weak arm. He blocks the plate and prevents passed balls better than most catchers in the game, besides being the best hitting and power catcher of all time.

Now, I think Posada is a horrible catcher defensively. Posada is the league worst at passed balls and has been consistently bad for years. Ok, he throws out a few more runners. He can hit but don't even joke and tell me he is on par with Piazza. He will not be a hall of famer ever. The Yankees can plug in just about any catcher and they will be adequate. He's far from a team guy like Derek is, in the past he's been a little bitch and griped about catching certain pitchers(Hernandez)...not a team thing to do.

Any Yankee fan can say that Mike isn't a team guy and that's fine. He deserves the opportunity to break the home run record as a catcher. You can't believe everything you read in the paper about him not wanting to go to first. He eventually will and he'll be fine.

 

[JOHN G]

Craig: if the team starts next year as currently constituated, then Piazza will split time and get the record that he deserves.....

the Mets have signed Vance Wilson again as backup, and of course, Philips is really a catcher also, so, they have their three catchers now........

what I would like to see is that instead of Piazza getting whole days off, to alternate him at 1st....this way they won't have to not have him for day games after night games.....

or better yet: have Piazza play 1st on the night before a day game, so that he can catch if he wants the next day......

there is NO question, that you get more rest at 1st Base...the constant crouching and getting up from the crouch postition is like doing a couple of hundred squats per game....has to take its toll no matter how strong you are....

virtually all catchers fade a bit at the end of the season.....

I will give Posada credit in that he had a very good and strong September but then he really showed signs of weakening finally in the playoffs and World Series......

if the Mets were to ever get into the World Series now, they would have the very best of three worlds in the American league games , having Vance Wilson with this superior fielding skills catching, Philips with his bat at First and then Mike at DH!!!

however: just have a sneaky feeling that the Mets are not done yet, and wouldn't be surprised if Mike is still not packaged in some sort of Mega Deal......

 

[Mike H]

...........about Piazza.......big deal!!

With or without him,the Mets will be hard pressed to
reach 500. I think MOST Met fans could care less about
his Hall of Fame stats,most of which he got somewhere else........if I were a Met fan, Piazza would not be
the focus,as he really means nothing to the team
or its future.........too bad they couldn't have traded
him for value...at this stage in his career,I guess
nobody else cares about past numbers either.

As I stated once before.......most managers look at
a catcher's defensive numbers first..a key to a
successful team...........all his years in LA.....great
stats,no rings.

 

[JOHN G]

Mike: I have stated this on here before....Mike is a model citizen...he has been extremely active with a multitude of charitable events since he came here.....no conduct problems, no prima donna stuff......

LA not winning is not because of Mike Piazza......

go into CBSSportsline and look at the lifetime statistics of Frank Thomas......when has the Chicago White Sox won anything? does that demean what Thomas has done??

the Red Sox have never won a World series....so, does that mean we simply discount the careers of Jim Rice, or Carl Yastremski or Wade Boggs??

you just can't think that way, it isn't fair to great ballplayers.....the Hall of Fame is lined with great players who never won a World Series.......

how about Hank Aaron, you going to discount his career??

Banks on Chicago Cubs.....

oh man, I could go on and on.......

all the years Oscar Robertson was with Cincinatti, and considered the best overall Basketball player alive, he couldn't win jack shite, and then, when he was teamed with Jabbar late in his career , he finally got a ring...

winning it all is a combination of players.....what did John Elway do in all those Super Bowls before he had Terrell Davis in the last two years of his career?????

how come the Yanks haven't won with Jeter the last couple of years, when they couldn't lose with him the first couple of his career? Again, the players around you.......

Michael Jordan led the NBA in scoring his very first season! what happened to Chicago THAT year?

I can't make it any more obvious......

 

[Mike H]

What happened to my last post?

 

[Paul_M]

Yeah but, Jorge has a wife that makes J-Lo look like a dog!

 

[Mike D]

mike

it looks like you posted it right after the server switch was made... there was an hour or so when we had 2 active boards... i'll see if i can retrieve it for you.

mike

 

[Mike D]

i am reposting this for mikeH

Points about Piazza are well taken............however...
Actions speak louder than words.........He showed lack
of leadership AND balls by letting Clemens do what
he did to him in the Series.............As far as him "doing
the right thing" by not charging the mound,I will NEVER
believe that.........in the heat of battle,instincts take
over,not worrying about being thrown out of a game.

As I stated once before,I played baseball up to
American Legion, and coached high schoolers and
adult leagues...........I would have been PRYING my
guys off of Roger's neck if he did to them what he
did to Piazza..............his backing down spoke volumes
and it showed.

We have a customer who comes into our restaurant
who is VERY CLOSE to the Mets situation........he
has stated more than once that Piazza is moody and
definitely not a factor in the clubhouse on the
positive side............I guess knowing this from such
a good source has me jaded on him......

As far as charity work,it's nice that he does that,
but why the *^&% shouldn't he........LOL
Give me millions of dollars a year for playing a
kids game and I'll speak at all the dinners you want,
as well as taking the tax break that goes with
making a donation................

Mike's legacy will be Hall of Fame for sure......
......along with tags of selfish for not going to first
long before this..........I guess H.O.F. is more
important to him than doing what's best for the team.

He will go down as a great catcher,who like the Big O.
and many others,never made the big show,while
Derek Jeter soon runs out of fingers for all his rings.

If I was starting a team tomorrow,there are a dozen
catchers I would pick over him.........for the extra offense
he gives you,he takes it back with lousy defense and
an arm that can't reach second.

 

[earthworm77]

Mike, while some of your points may be valid, how can you honestly believe Piazza did not do the right thing in the series. If he clobbered Roger, he would have been ejected and that would have definately been more costly to the Mets than having Roger who only plays once every four night thrown out. Regular season, I agree with you, charge the mound and crack his skull with the bat, but the W/S....where you wait your whole career to get to....not smart man, c'mon, you gotta see it that way if you give it honest thought.

 

[Mike H]

I hear you earthy..........(and you're right,btw)
However,I firmly believe the umps would have thrown
both of them out of the game ( Clemens should go for the bat toss and the history leading up to it)
I like Clemens intensity,I don't like trying to hurt
people........
Being a WS game,I don't see the umps
only penalizing the Mets.......I think they would have
made an even swap.

Anyway,I guess it's all water under the bridge now.
It's easy for us to second guess what should have been. Heat of the battle makes people do different
things..........if Piazza could rationalize everything
you said rather than go after someone trying to
hurt him, he's a better man than I.

My next ?..........when the players were on the field,
why didn't one of the Mets subs do something?
Someone trying to take out your star???
Maybe they need Don Zimmer.......LOL.
Anyway......Merry Christmas ........

 

[earthworm77]

I agree with you again, look at it this way though.....lets say you're a guy who is lucky to be on the post season roster. The Series was a pretty good one featuring close games. What if you jumped off the bench like Bernitz did in preseason and chased Roger or fought him. You likely would not be on the field for the rest of the Series, now imagine if your team actually won, not being allowed to celebrate with the rest of the guys.

 

[Mike H]

I guess I could use a hockey analogy........
Team playing sluggish in Stanley Cup Finals.....guys
taking runs at your better players........send out a
marginal player/goon to start a fight and wake
people up...........he may or may not see any more
of the playoffs,as he "took one" for the team.
My 2 cents.