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· Registered
101 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Soriano and 2 minor leaugers....
Shannon Stewart and Latroy Hawkins...
Packaged with Cedeno (we'll pay half his contract) in a sign and trade with Baltimore for Vlad Guerrero...
Troy Gluas a pitcher and some minor leaugers... we'll move wiggy to second.
Billy Koch, Maglio Ordonez and a minor leauger?

· Registered
1,708 Posts
I think your....

really OVERESTIMATING his value...He's a guy without a glove. A 1/2 a player in my mind. He's a born DH. He's a liability in the feild and should go to the AL and DH if he was smart...

· Banned
5,446 Posts
I was going to stay out of this one but....dont even think of comparing the "present day" Piazza to Jason Giambi. Piazza is on his last legs where as Giambi is coming off of his worst season ever. His "usual" numbers speak for themselves. Craig, your statement was that of a Yankee hating Met fan and nothing more!

· Registered
1,708 Posts
If Piazza plays 1st as good as Giambi you'll be lucky. At least he won't have to embarrass himself(or anyone who was a catcher in their lifetime) with the 2 hoper throws to second base anymore.;)

· Registered
51 Posts
I wouldn't trade a hamburger for Piazza..........
One of the most overrated players there is......selfish s.o.b.
who cares more about endorsements and tv commercials than
practicing throws to second ( has he EVER reached the
This crap about building up stats so he is the
"best hitting catcher" is a bunch of bullshit. Whatever he
achieves in the way of batting is offset by the fact that he is
one of the worst fielding catchers to get behind the plate.

The best??? I would take Yogi,Fisk,Bench and many other
more COMPLETE players anyday over pretty boy Piazza.

He plays for a horrible team that needs him to go to first
for the sake of the team and he punks

Guys on the radio gave it to him good,which he deserves.
Many Met fans even said to trade him. The guy has never been
a winner anywhere.............oh yeah,a World Series in which
he PUNKED OUT against me that was the
turning point of the Series. Piazza didn't stand up for himself.
Says a lot about intestinal least make an
attempt, a show for crying out loud........I've coached high
schoolers who would have had Clemens by the throat.....
The fact that none of his teamates did anything may tell
you something as well........

Mets should cut their losses.........for their sake I hope
they get something good in return, even though this will
smell like a fire sale to most gm's.

After you break down his numbers you realize that for the extra few homers and rbi's he hits over an average catcher,
his liability in the field is too great.......give me Ivan Rodriquez
any day.........most managers from little league to college to
the pro's would pick a defensive standout at catcher
anyday,that's how critical the position is.

I guess Piazza typifies today's player..they spell team...M-E.

· Banned
3,747 Posts
Wait a minute now. True, Piazza is not a good throwing catcher at all. I'll give you that. He is an adequate defensive catcher as far as calling a game and preventing passed balls. His bat makes him better. Please do not tell me Posada is better because then you will insult yourselves as Yankee fans. Jorge seems to somehow be right at the top every year in passed ball leaders.....I know how you can explain it though....Yankee pitchers just throw harder. LOL Matt, that was for you.

As far as Piazza punking out and not being a team player....
1- the loss of Piazza in the W/S for CLUBBING Roger would have been more detrimental to the Mets as he is an every day player and their slugger. Although you wanted to see it happen, you can't really blame him for not fighting. To call him a punk shows ignorance in regards to the situation and the consequences. He walked towards the mound and said what he had to. That was a team player move........if it had been a regular season game, things might have been different...ask Manny Moto about the order of protection he had to take out on Piazza. I'm sure you critisized him for trying to get a piece of that guy though.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers about him not wanting to play unless he catches. Regarding team players, weren't you guys saying how Sorriano just wants to hit homers to get paid more? He's not a team player? C'mon. Let these overpaid millionaires deal with their problems.
2- Punking out is a guy who pitched more than 500 games and said, "I thought I picked up the ball, didn't realize it was a bat." Well if it was the ball, your throw to first was really a bad one and about 15 yards off to the right. C'mon guys, get real. I know you are Yank fans and don't like Piazza but show some logic. Tell 'em you meant it, you don't like Piazza.
3- Punking out is a guy who makes a living throwing into a box 18" by 24" and saying it just got away after your 96mph fastball was 3ft off course and hit a guy in the head who coincidentally hit a Grand Slam off you in your last appearance against a man say you meant it, it would have died that day after you took one in the back.
4- Punking out is accepting a guy onto your team despite his intentional beanings of you star players for years and then defending him like he was the Dali Lama.

"Cut your losses"??????Unload him???? a healthy Piazza at first base should net you at least 30-35 homeruns. How can you let that go. Anyone on the Yankess who wasn't using chemical enhancers do that last season? Perhaps Sorriano but that paid off in the Playoffs didn't it. If Vaghn could fake it, Piazza should be a gold glove (sarcasm) You are all Yankee fans so I expect you to not like a Mets player, especially the best one on the team, Mr. Met. But please show some logic, if you are going to trade him, you absolutely need to get star power in return. Great, I'd like Pudge over anybody but I don't think he's going anywhere. Especially with that new Yankee "F-You" ring he is going to be wearing.

George, you can't be serious, Jason is not a good fielder. He is the same player you are describing Piazza as being.....he is a bat and that is it. You can't tell me Giambi is a good first baseman...Johnson runs rings around him and should be insulted anytime Giambi starts at the pad in front of him.

Leigh, it will be interesting to see how some of these batters perform with the abolishment of that drug they were taking....Gambi included. No my statement is not of a Yankee hating Mets fan...I do not hate the Yanks, I dislike them. (I got in trouble using that word so you can't use it either) ;)

Piazza has a lifetime batting average of almost .320 forget catchers, what active player has that? This isn't a guy who had two good years in a short career, it is a guy who has played on a consistent level for many years. As bad as he is, he led the team to two consecutive Met post seasons. I think if he gets traded, which he won't, it will be far from a firesale...that happened in the middle of last season. Hope you guys like Alomar!;)

· Registered
1,708 Posts
A few points...

Posada has more past balls(and real balls) than Piazza because the Yankee pitchers throw alot of split-finger fastballs that drop out of the strike zone and into the dirt on occassion. Clemens and Contrares(sp?) have two of the best splitters in the league. Over 90 mph. Tough to handle. As far as throwing to second...not even close.(I could throw better to second than Piazza, noB.S)
Comparing the two at THIS stage in their carreer's it's a no-brainer. Piazza's numbers will only get worse and Posada is still improving. Posada ANY day.

Yes, he did punk out with Clemens....thinking about the team?? No way, that's a pure and simple reaction, no time to think. I'd put my $$ on Clemens BTW...
This BS about Soriano not being a team player is talk radio BS..I bet about 25 or so teams would welcome him open arms. I think Yankee fans are venting their frustrations on him unfairly. He spoiled us all plain and simple.

Yes, I know Jason is not a good feilder BUT he is average and not below. All this BS about him being a butcher at first...haven't seen it. If Piazza plays an average 1st base you'll be lucky.
Punking out by defending Clemens?? He helped us win a W.S.. He's all pin-strips. Once a hated rival puts on your uniform ALL things change. Lindros and Holik are examples. Yes, he hit Yankee batters in the past but the irony is this is one of the reasons why your want him on your team.
Speaking of taking drugs...I think the Met locker room had a funny smell a few times when Bobby V was coaching. First it would smell funny, then they would order a bunch of pizzas..humm...:confused:

· Administrator
21,736 Posts
George: marijuana, alcohol, steroids, etc are problems for ALL major league team and players.....

don't forget, most of these are young men....they are in the heydays of their salad and partying days....

just because they make a lot of money isn't going to change that.....

like most humans, they want it all: the money, the fame, the booze etc.....hard to do that juggling act when you have to perform at a major league or pro level day to day......

don't forget , these are college age and immediate college age young didn't party excessively at that age? LOL.......

no, I didn't, oddball me.....I was in college on full scholarship...I knew I had to keep exceptional grades at that time to get into Dental school.... I was very serious about school....knew I had another 4 years after college....already had met my future wife and we were already scheming to get married as soon as possible.....

I was NEVER into the party scene, and don't feel one iota that I missed anything.....I was always a jock and sports and hobbies meant more to me than making myself senseless.....

however: I am the oddball.....and all of these problems are endemic to their age and maturity, something that spans ALL teams and players, not just the Mets.....

· Registered
1,708 Posts
Good point Doc...

GUILTY as charged.:eek: Noth Av. got the best of me..LOL.. Yes, it is part of todays culture. Yes, it is throughout all sports. The point I was trying to make was steroids=pot=alcohol=pills exc... If your going to go after the steroid heads then go after the pot heads too. Or have no drug testing at all. Make it a team policy not a league policy.

· Registered
51 Posts
First off,my cash is on Clemen's kicking Piazza's ass back
Also,speaking of whether he should have retaliated
against don't have time to decide the
consequences when the adrenaline is flowing in such a
high pressure situation............having played and coached
through many levels,I can tell you,it's either your personality
or it isn't...........which is o.k.....however, it's interesting
that the Mets folded rather easily after that.

I am a Yankee fan,but see MANY AREAS they need to
improve........earthy,your love of the Met's is great,but
seems to blind you on certain issues.........

NOBODY is trading Piazza straight for A-Rod......wishful
thinking from a sportswriter........

Met's need starting pitching and a bullpen,otherwise you're
looking at 80-85 wins next year.....

Regarding Clemens,I've always been a fan of his,even when
he was beaning Yankees........He's a throwback to Gibson,
Drysdale and Marichal.......gritty,feisty,take no prisoners
attitude....the mark of a winner,and Hall of Famer.
Can't let your dislike of the guy cloud the obvious.

I CAN'T STAND Ramirez or Pedro.........I will however,always
tip my cap to their abilities and accomplishments.......

btw,if Piazza was a "team player" he would go to
Anyway,hot stove league aside,this will
all unfold when the season begins.

· Banned
3,747 Posts
Mike, given the history between the two and the fact that it was was W/S game. I don't think Piazza had to be told not to get into it if something did occur. I remember Piazza approahing Roger and the umpire stepping in....not Piazza cowering away to the dugout. As for not having time, I've made some split second life or death decisions in which time seemed to stand still. I'm not going to lie and tell you I mulled over what I did but I think that I had some time to think. Piazza knew or was told not to get into it before the game even started.

You mentioned some real take no prisoners pitchers but failed to mention that NL pitchers actually have to face getting beaned too......not Roger so you can't include him as that type of guy. Add the big unit to that list. He actually has hit more batters than Clemens in his career and is the active player leader in that catagory. True, my Mets need pitching...I'd love 85 wins.....obviously I'd love more. The Yanks seem to be facing the same pitching problems though.

I don't buy the reports that he doesn't want to go to first. You can't believe everything editors and columnists write to sell papers. We''ll see when it happens or doesn't

· Big Blue
1,810 Posts
You gotta love it

Sort of reminds me of when I was a kid...who was better, the Dodgers or the Yankees, Mantle or Mays....thats why baseball is the best. We talk it 12 months a year.

I am a Yankee fan. Always have been, no "band wagon guy" here. The very first sentence I spoke was "whats the score". My Dad would send me in the house to ask that question of my grandfater who was glued to the TV on a Saturday afternoon. Which by the way was the only day a ball game would be televised in the early to middle 50's.

A couple of things. 1. Piazza VS Posada. Piazza is going to the Hall Of Fame. In his prime an All Time Great". That said, the last two years Posada has been the better player. Granted Piazza was hurt for most of this year. Posada will never be the offensive player Piazza was, but is a vastly supperior defensive player dispite his high number of past balls. Posada also calls a much better game and is a "take charge" type of guy, both on and off the field.

2. Now as far as Piazza moving to first base. Many people dont know that when Piazza was drafted, he was drafted as a catcher, but actually WAS a first baseman. They (the Dodgers) were going to pass on him until Lasorda told them that Piazza could also catch. Piazza at that time had never caught agame in his life. Is he selfish for not moving to first base for the good of the team? Unknown. Would it be good for the Mets if the guy proved to be DiMaggio on first base? (A failed Yankee experiment in 1951) Not only couldnt DiMag play first, but he went into a slump that lasted 2 months. His average went from . 323 on July 28th to .263 at years end. His Home Run total dropped from 39 in 1950 to 12. He was so disgusted that he retired at the end of the year at only 36 years of age. He had some health issues as well (heel). Best thing for Mike is to go to an American League Team.

3. With the size of his contract, NO one is going to trade equal value for him. Forget A-Rod, he's going to the Red Sox....just to piss Steinbrener off. lol Best bet is a couple of AAA pitchers who are ready NOW. Baltimore has a few, so does the White Sox, but doubt they could take on his contract, or would want to for that matter. New manager Ozzie Guillen wants to get rid of Thomas & Maglio Ordonez, so I dont believe Piazza is a fit here. He isnt going to the Yanks, and the only team out west that could possibly afford him are the Angels. There aren't any good matches with personnel there to satisfy the Mets. No its Baltimore or he stays with the Mets.

4. Piazza/Clemens....get over it. They did.

I guess thats it for now....I love this stuff.
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