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........
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys,

The powers that be have blamed any problem on these 2 waters on bass fishermen or any one else they could find that was defenseless. The homeowners on Maho have proved that can not be trusted to do the right thing. At Callahan Lake(aka Candlewood) the authorities have convinced the homeowners that tx bass fishing was going to pollute their waters and cost them big bucks in declining land values.

I think its time that we put the blame right on them. The water quality issues that arised this year probably can be traced to homeowner activities. There has been massive building, and rebuilding along the banks of both lakes. More and more are year round residences. Btwn the building, water pollution from septic systems and the usual chemical dumps on the lawns are playing a big part in the water quality areas. The weedless Maho is now less resistant to handle the extra pollution which is being generated. I guareentee more noise, water pollution, and harm to both lakes are caused by lakeside residents and those that keep their boats on the water than tx bass fisherman.


Paul
 

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Big Blue
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1,810 Posts
no organization

Paul

Its like spitting into the wind. If you dont want to get wet, get out of the way. Most organizations pay lip service to their members, treading water and "pretending" to do something. The truth of the matter is everyone hopes the problem will just go away on its own. There is no organization within most organizations. The ones that do "charge to the front" do it long after the horse has left the barn. Sad, but unfortunately true. I'm moving to Salacia...no fishing regs there....come to think of it no people there either. lol

Scul
 

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I take it from your comments Paul, that you feel that Candlewood also has declined as a fishery.....

I have said that for the last few years.....

you see, people will quote what I call Fooling numbers...

for example: the last contest on Maho, the winners turned up with a 17 pound bag....but how many boats DNW, and how many showed up with one or two fish? and these are the best fishermen in the area! what would happen on a normal day, if one or two average fishing skill boats go on that water? what would be their chances?

the same is true of CANDY....oh yes, there have been some good contests here and there, and some good weights, but if you talk to anyone who really is on that water a lot, similar to the way Pat fished Maho two years ago, or Tony this year, and you will then get a truer picture of overall decline......

I judge the quality of any bass water by how well an average angler will do on any given day......

when it comes down to: oh, you have to know the lake, oh, you have to know the lures....yeah sure, that works for any water, but what makes a water REALLY special, is when, on the average, on any average day, any average angler can have a decent time on the water.....not necessarily spectacular.....

I have see Wampus go into that mode over the last two years now too, where it has become much more critical how you know the water and the approach to have a good day.....

other local Waters, ie, Whaley and Oscawanna, have been on an upswing......

if the ups and downs are simply a normal cycling, then we don't have to worry, but if it is due to man made problems, then that is a concern....
 
G

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Doc...If I may

I think TOO much has been put on the fisheries and not enough on the fisherperson....Case in point...You brought it up...Two guys from Pa bring in 17lb bags from Maho.
I fished Maho in the Halloween tournament and caught one smallie..Joe caught a beautiful Smallie..WE ONLT TARGETED A CERTAIN WATER DEPTH THE WHOLE DAY...
I think more people need to learn to adapt....INCLUDING MYSELF.
I have said this once and I will say it again....The fish in Maho and Candy did not move to North Carolina.
Two guys with (What I heard) very little experiece on Maho brought in 17lbs... Two sides to every story
My .02
Woody
P.S.
Candy....Some folks do good... some folks do great... and some folks do average...I can spend the next 10 years on that lake alone...
I think it was LILLY (The Dead Sea) earlier this season according to some...Not me
I LOVE that place
 
G

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On the DNW side of things

Just because they elected not to weigh...Does not mean they didn't catch fish...I saw two boats dumping fish when they learned they were not in the money...
Woody
 

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fisherman
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John G mentioned something that got me a thinkin ! Suppose it had NOTHING to do with landowners or bassfishermen ? How long has anyone on this post been seriously fishing let alone serious fishing on a particular lake ? What if it IS a cycle ? Has anyone looked back and seen any kind of pattern where say 25 years ago the same thing happened ? Something like a total changing of the old guard of fish ?
I can not speak of any body of water except maybe the Ashokan that I fished consistently enough to comment , but even up there , I've caught a ton of 12 inchers for a year or 2 then nothing but 4lbers a few years later only to go right back to 12 inchers again . COULD lakes go through cycles like this every few years ?
 

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Just another thought , but living in Rockland (YUCK) most of my youth , I even recall years when Rockland Lake produced absolutely nothing but dinks , to the point where no one bothered with it except the weekend bus loads from NYC . Now read some of the posts by Huge !!! Betwen his reports on Rockland Lake and Harriman , he has restored my faith ! Still not to the point I'd ever go back to Rockland or Clarkstown LOL
 

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Candy

I have to diagree on Candy fishing declines over the past few years-- I have been fishing it constantly for the past 4 years all summer long, and pretty late into the fall ususall (except for this year).

I would say that the topography of teh lake in terms of structure has changed dramatically-- impacted both by the drawdowns and by the items mentioned above (although I think to a far lesser degree).

The weeds in Candy are definitely not as pronounced as they were a few years back, and I increasingly find myself looking for humps and rockpiles instead of the offshore weedbeds.

Also, the smallie population has seemingly taken over.... and a lot of the fish are young agressive smallies who have moved into palces once haunted by old mossback. If anything (and I say this to John G all the time) I must have caught smallies 10:1 over largemouth this season...

I think the fishery is changing and people know Candy because of the traffic, pains in teh neck jet skiiers, etc-- which has surprisingly been much less since the 9/11 attacks (maybe economy is not as good)... but I would be hard pressed to find a fishery in our area as diverse as the wood...

and oh, I can't stand those tourney guys either-- I think they'd ruin any fishery!:cussing:

And I have a DEC book from 1945 which goes over Candy in depth at my hosue in CT.. when I go up this weekend, I'll take a look at the cycle theory.
 

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I don't have a ton of time here, but hopefully what I have time for makes sense. I also feel (I'm no fisheries biologist)that lakes can go through cycles . They are also constantly changing. Perhaps Mahopac is not the largemouth fishery it used to be, but maybe it is becoming one kick butt smallmouth one. A lake with that much activity is bound to change over time. Subtle things can have profound effects over time. There are way too many factors that are probably at work here to even spend time trying to figure them all out. I have to think that like all things evolution takes place.
Although I wasn't at the Halloween T. I also heard several teams did not weigh in, but did catch fish. Personally I don't fish that lake enough to go there in October as a casual fisherman but I'd go for a tournament if that makes any sense. If you just want to catch fish, go to whaley(which also has its days too.) If I was taking someone out who really wasn't that into fishing it would not be to Mahopac.

I've been going to this lake in Canada for the past probably twelve years. Fantastic smallmouth fishing. This is not a highly developed lake and over the course of the week there, you see maybe 2 jet skis and only a handful of fisherman. 12 years ago all you could catch was quality smallmouth with an occasional 12-15" lm mixed in here or there. This past year we caught our share of smallmouth, but I caught a ton of largemouth with several over 3 lbs. which just never happened. My long winded point is just that things do change over time, nothing stays the same etc, Hopefully it's just changing to become a better smallmouth place. I personally would not have a problem adapting to match those changes at a chance to catch some beautiful fish tha t I have seen come out of there.
 

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Still throwing 208....
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Johnkud for President - way to go John. Kudos for you for simply questioning the masses. You should run for a political office one day.

But for now.....STOP THE INSANITY MEN - THE SKY IS NOT FALLING - WE SIMPLY NEED TO FISH BETTER DURING THESE CYCLES BECAUSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

IMHO - Bass lakes do not die practically overnight and two years is practically overnight. Things run in cycles. Now, I am not a biologist, and I don't even play one on tv, but does anyone KNOW that its the property owners fault? No, just a guess. Does anyone KNOW its LMB (which also seems to be effecting another genus of bass in maho, i.e. smallies -hmmmmmmm). Does anyone KNOW that its the TX fisherman? All guess's - including mine that says its the bad side of a cycle. WHO KNOWS????? Not any of us, at least not yet - but keep reading.

Does anyone remember the the thread two years ago about the awful DROUGHTS that we were experiencing? Oh my God, you would have thought that Armegedon was coming. Well guess what, the water came back - the fishing seems to be pretty good too on all the res's that everyone was worried about. Another cycle. Sometimes rain, sometimes drought, but mother nature always finds a way.

Now comes the FACT.

I am setting up a meeting with the biologist from Fordahm university that keeps a boat on Mahopac (I cant speak for candy). They keep records, take water samples and look pretty closely at the fish. If he agrees to meet, and I believe he will since we have a mutual friend, I will gladly share the info with you guys.

Until then, stop being a "The Glass is Half Empty" bunch, but then again, who the hell am I...........I suppose. I AM the guy that takes responsibility and says that it is MY FAULT when I can't catch them.

Relax guys - its all good until we know its NOT, and for now, it is!

Is this just early winter, I need something to do so I will vent on the board crap that we experience EVERY YEAR? HMMMMMMMM....

Ok John - you can pull it now........(being said very lovingly buddy - lol - I just know that you are the peace keeper here)

"Let the lynchings begin!"

Peace,

Pat X
 

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........
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Guys,

I just mean the water quality issue. The fishing is fine at Candy, just has been 3 cold, horrible springs in a row. Maho has been at the min denuded of veg and consequently of a productive bass fishery. Of course at some point the wq could/has degrade/d enough to negatively effect fishing even further.


Paul
 

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The Anti-Senko
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I don't know what is going on at Maho, but I do know that at Lake Welch, a body of water that I have fished since I was 6 years old definitely has gone through some cycles. Right now the average size smallmouth is much better than it was just a couple of years ago. I used to catch tons of 10-13 inch fish, but now the average appears to be more like 2lbs. No comments from the WNY guys! LOL! Last year I threw buzzbaits on Rockland Lake and didn't catch 1-4lber. This year....holey moley! The average size largie in there is definitely around 3lbs (at least). That lake had a major unexplained weed die off this year and the fishing was erratic, but the size was crazy. I am praying the weeds come back there next spring.
 

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as always, people simply miss my point: I said, if it IS a cycle that a water is going through, then you just have to suck it up and as Pat and Woody pointed out, fish longer harder and adapt...

however, I also said if it IS man made or caused, then there is cause for alarm....

I did NOT say which it was, so please people, in threads like this, to avoid confrontations, read ALL of people's post, Slowly, and then read it again, before you comment....

try to refrain from putting words in people's mouths....

also, PAT: in Johnny L's post, after his comment about tournament fishermen, he put a silly smilie figure....that is tantamount to adding LOL after a statement, so in Internet "etiquette", he was busting chops....

and Woody, my dear friend: saying, hey , we have to learn to fish harder and learn more and adapt, is no different than when you see these atheletes being interviewed and they say: "we gotta take one game at a time....we can't look past this game....etc"

these are truisms......they are pep talk.....but they do absolutely NOTHING for the person who is struggling on a water and who wants to do better....

if there is a better way to fish Mahopac right now, then let someone come on here and go into SPECIFICS about how to do that.......I have always told everything that I do on every water.....

but because there are a few competitions on there, everybody will not say a word.....

Hugefish, of all people, a constant IM conversant with me, would not even tell me what he was going to do before the last contest.....

so , unless someone has CONCRETE advice on how to tackle a tough water whether it is going in a Cycle, or whether it was poisoned, or for whatever reason the fishing has become tougher, then PLEASE, PLEASE, if you want to do something POSTIVE for your fellow fishermen, then do this:

SPARE US THE PLATITUDES!

and dispense with real world, technical information....

otherwise, lay off threads like this!
 

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This is an interesting thread - I can understand certain points of EACH post, and I have experienced cycles and changing conditions in many lakes, but I've never fished Maho or Candy, so I won't add to it, I'll just say I hope to try it one day. I just hope that our favorite lakes will always coinue to be accessible to both the fishermen who love them, and the people who enjoy making their homes on them - hope I'm not wasting our time!

:beerchug:


JC
 

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The Evil Tyrant?

John G-- got your points, hopefully I did mention some more technical aspects... I treid to stay away from the soapbox (although there always seems to be one nearby.)

I was kidding around about the Tx guys also... hence the little face guy...

Salut to all


:beerchug:
 

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Still throwing 208....
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Does anyone want to buy my new book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People on NYBASS"........the story of how I got my dynamic personality and how easy it could be to piss off the masses with just a few key strokes......

Its still all good John. LOL

Pat X::D
 
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