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Let the fish be with you
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why am I posting this? Because I feel the NEWSPAPERS are trying to raise tensions. That way they can sell newspapers as people may die in rioting. Our news media is really disgusting. Here`s a typical example:

" I think that he feels truly in his heart that if he did not have that weapon that night he might not be here," O'Mara said. "[He] would have continued to get beat even though he was screaming for help."

That was a quote from Zimmerman`s lawyer.

How do I feel? If he didn`t have his gun, there would have never been a confrontation. Nobody would be dead, no trial, NOTHING!!!

As to the Verdict, how could it be any different? The prosecution NEVER had a case. This was a tragedy waiting to happen. Same with road rage, only there, the weapon is a car.

Yet, our wonderful NEWSPAPERS will do everything they can do to stir up trouble, instead of fixing the problem. In the Zimmerman case, the problem is Florida law. Allowing vigilantes to carry guns.
Law enforcement should be left to law enforcement.

And that`s why I say that if you see any laws being broken, on our Reservoirs or anywhere, CALL the Police. You have now done your job as a concerned citizen, now let them do there`s.

Hopefully, everybody will remain calm with this verdict, & this tragedy will not escalate any further.
 

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My thought on the George Zimmerman case

I believe he was guilty of manslaughter, however I still feel like the jury made the right call. While there was evidence about what happened before the crime, with the phone calls and whatnot, during the actual confrontation there is only some unclear sound bytes that made it indistinguishable between the two men. There burden of proof was not satisfied especially with Zimmerman's injuries.

What I think happened is that Zimmerman saw Trayvon Martin holding something in his hands (turns out it was iced tea and skittles.) Zimmerman followed him either because he was black or just because he was a teenager in a black hoodie. You can't assume racism but nor can you rule it out.

Zimmerman called the police, who told him to back down. However Zimmerman didn't want to lose sight of him. The gun in his pocket probably reassured him of his strength.

Trayvon realized he was being followed. He got defensive and started shouting. Things escalated, Trayvon swung and hit Zimmerman, Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot Trayvon.

There is too much gray to definitively call George guilty since there is no proof whether Trayvon outright attacked George, or was acting suspicious before hand.

That being said, you are right Marty to say that a gun made all this possible. Without it only issue would have been a few black eyes. However that does not mean this should be precedent for outlawing guns. Zimmerman had a right to have a gun, he just used it unwisely.

Honestly I have no idea what to do about guns. I believe people have a right to protect themselves and hunt, and guns just make it easier. At the same time, guns result in so many deaths and outlawing them would save so many lives. I am still undecided on the issue.

Sorry for the long post
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
As of June 23 2013, 5,255 people have been killed by guns since the Dec 14 Newtown massacre. Maybe some of those folks would have died by other means, but not anywhere near that many people would be.Still, this is about newspapers fueling the fires. Maybe we have to boycott newspapers.
 

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here is my common sense, no politics view of the whole thing, of which I followed very closely:

this whole thing didn't have to happen...that being said, once it DID happen, it WAS a case of self defense....

the problem, as I see, despite prejudice on BOTH SIDES, (yes, both Zimmerman and Travon displayed that, and both used bad judgement) was that the State brought up the INCORRECT CHARGES!!

with the broken nose and back of the head wounds on Zimmerman, they were NEVER going to prove a murder charge...

what the charge SHOULD have been, was some sort of Reckless Behavior, or something to that effect: Zimmerman was told NOT to follow the "suspect", and he did...he violated the advice despite calling in...he did this knowing that he was armed.....and then when both of them handled it terribly, it resulted in the tragedy that happened, and shouldn't have happened....

Zimmerman acted above and beyond the stated "rules" of the Neighborhood watch....it is not called a "watch" for nothing.....

but, as I said, that aside, it escalated where it shouldn't have, and when it did, it did become a "self defense" set up, of which due to his wounds and the corroboration of witnesses, he was NEVER going to be found guilty of technical murder...

This was a very different case from the infamous Bernie Goetz affair: Bernie had an illegal gun, was confronted by young men with criminal records , shot the perps before they touched him, shot at them while they were fleeing, shot the downed perp in the back, and then fled the scene.....

Zimmerman had a legal gun and carrying permit, WAS part of a neighborhood watch , did make the call, and was being physically assaulted and DID remain on the scene and call the Police.....

his bad judgement was in confronting Travon, of which he was told NOT to do....the result of his bad judgement and actions led to Travon's death, that, in itself, I feel, deserves some sort of legal punishment....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Very good points John, as that is exactly what happened. What I`m bitching about is the news media trying to turn this into a series of riots. I guess that will give them more to write about at the expense of other peoples lives. They are showing every protest on the news. They are writing up stories comparing this to KKK murders. Just terrible journalism trying to make a tragedy worse. Let`s hope they do not succeed.
 

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I will not make comment to the GZ verdict , the case or how much this is all a tragedy all too familiar and it really never gets old before it shows itself new . Can appreciate both John and Martys point as for journalism , it is a profession that has truly lost its professionalism and its ethics for the way of sensationalism , opinion shapers , commentary and color commentating .
With todays media, around the clock , instant around the globe, viral social network , bloggers myspace to facebook to twitter , it's no wonder real journalism has gone down the shitter .
Anyone with a computer to smart phone can get fact less writeups and instagram postups faster than an editor can say run the story . Movies and video games make space look better than anything NASA has ever shown and lies shadows over truths that are seldom ever known .
All we can do is watch what and who we view as most trustworthy and wha'ts true and real will make itself through and hopefully revealed .
 

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We all know the media likes to over exaggerate and blow things out of proportion for their own agendas, $$$. I feel the same way when they do this to gun control and mass murders involving "assault rifles".

In the case of Zimmerman, yes, wrong charges were filed. Yes, he did disobey advice from LE. But let's step back for a minute ad ask ourselves a few questions.

Why was there a need for a neighborhood watch to begin with? Perhaps they were fed up with recent crimes. Why does one choose to get a permit to carry instead of relying on local authorities to protect them? Perhaps they felt LE was inadequate. Why did Zimmerman chose to follow the individual instead of listen to LE and back off? Perhaps Zimmerman didn't have the confidence in LE that they would even send someone to respond, which leads back to why there's a neighborhood watch, permit to carry, and perhaps the reason Zimmerman decided to follow.

Perhaps many of you live in areas where you never felt the need to protect yourself, that your local PD would. But there are a lot of people in this country that does not have those luxuries. They need to protect themselves, and their neighborhoods. There may be more gun related deaths due to having guns in the streets, but the banning of guns in other countries have shown that crime does not go down due to the banning of guns. Bad people will be bad people. Killing a few bad guys might not be so bad now and again. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Shawn while I'm 100% pro gun, your comment about killing a few bad guys once in a while is a good thing, is the stupidest comment I ever saw on this board. I can see why Zimmerman did what he did, I dont care what color, size, race, or sex someone is if I'm getting the pulp beat out of me I would assume I would be fearing for my life. But no one should DIE, good or bad for no reason. There's millions of people in this country who are bad or in jail do they deserve to die? I don't think so. However I am not against the death penalty some people should get that treatment.
 

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Agree totally with the media trying to stir the pot.... that's what you get when there isn't alot of "news" going on. The honest truth is - the reason Zimmerman isn't in jail is because the prosecutor went for a "big" conviction under public pressure. This was evident by the prosecutor trying to add lesser charges after the fact and got stopped by the judge.

Personally... I don't know Travon Martin and I don't know if he was afraid and felt he need to defense himself or the agressor in the situation. What I do know is Zimmerman is an idiot... say what you will about who you think did what but evidence is nobody really knows. The only truth is Zimmerman had every opportunity to avoid the situation and chose not to... the fact he could claim self defense under the Florida law is pure stupidity. If I start a confrontation - (and he did by getting out of his car) - start getting my ass beat - use a gun to end it and cry defense is ridiculous. The moment Zimmerman left his car after calling LE he lost the defense claim in my book.

As for this feeling everyone has to defend and arm themselves is crazy. People can talk all they want about the need to defend themselves or own a gun/knife/whatever and I just shake my head. I grew up in a neighborhood that I'm pretty damn sure Zimmerman wouldn't drive through with a car full of guns and bullet proof windows. What did I learn growing up there... keep your eyes open AND AVOID TROUBLE. Does that mean ignore stuff... no... does that mean run away from everything that scares you... no. But it means keep your ass out of situations you can't control or sense something isn't right - anyone who's grown up in a bad neighborhood develops these street smarts... and street smarts aren't having a gun to defend yourself, it's keeping clear of stuff that isn't right. Zimmerman has no street smarts and because of it someone is dead and his life will never be the same.

J.
 

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I think it is important for distinguishing media. There are two types of media, opinion and factual. MSNBC, drudge, any talking head show (Maddow, Reilly) are all opinion.

For the factual ones (NBC, CNN and especially BBC,) they have to get viewers. As such they have to appeal to people, and people are interested in the Zimmerman trials.

I don't tink you can disregard journalism in general, there are some great journalists in Libya, Iran, Syria doing great work. It is just that much of their contributions are hidden behind Keith Oberman and Rush Limbaugh
 

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1. Verdict was absolutely correct

2. There is only one account of events up untill trayvon had zimmerman mounted MMA style. That is zimmermans account, there were no witnesses that saw the escalation.

Zman followed TM till he lost sight of him, started to return to his vehicle and TM jumped him in a blindside attack.

Any other telling of the order of events is clearly fabricated.

3. This was a political witch hunt from the day Obama stuck his nose in it and now it is in Eric Holders court. But not a peep from either of them on the 49 black on black murders in chicago last weekend, the town they both come from.

4. The liberal media is trying to turn this into a race war by portraying a hispanic man as a white/hispanic.

5. Trayvon had the option to run away because a man on the phone was watching him. Instead he got mad and attacked. He had already been kicked out of school for drugs, caught with burglary tools and womens jewelry, bragged on facebook about his fighting skills and loving beating people up. He chose wrong.

6. Just because george was a neighborhood watchmen did not forfeit his 2nd amendment rights to bare arms nor his legal carry permit. Because it makes so much sense to leave your firearm at home when you have the highest chance of running into a criminal. Yea, wicked smart..

7. It is very sad for both families involved. The Martins lost a son. The Zimmermans will have too look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives for fear of physical or political revenge.

8. Politics should NEVER EVER over ride the justice system as they did this time! It is sickening!!
 

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9. Instructions given by a police dispatcher are not legally binding. You are not required to comply nor are their instructions/suggestions by any means "orders". They can tell you to do whatever they want to tell you, failure to oblige is not an offense of any measure unless you are breaking a real law while not complying.
 

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Marty , nice intentions trying to keep this from becoming political. amazing how much you can see how the justice system is a mockery of what it should be when people view facts from their perspective how it fits to what conclusions have been drawn denying or out right ignoring evidence that side against their point of view , however slanted it may be. The jury received the case to decide and ruled based on the instructions given for the charges given .

no place for politics in a case , policies and legislation of a law that goes back to a social order where towns had individual law man policing not a police force , that would out gun the military that existed in that time . There is no race factor in it for me ,I am personally of both hispanic and african american descent .

GZ however motivated to want to start his neighborhood watch ,he was the coordinator and was trained to not follow , by the instructor , by the officer that accompanied the instructor giving the instructions, a powerpoint presentation outlining His role NOT to follow and given a manual further explaining his role ends at notifying authorities and NOT follow. FACT.

GZ, left his home to watch for and prepared with gun ( legally ) in tow , ready to go beyond watching , but get involved prepared for whatever encounter .
TM , left his home ,in the same residential development where he was staying , yet all he was prepared for was to go the store to do what teenagers do buy junk food, he wore a hood hell I do as well if its rain fall. So walking in the light rain talking to a girl on the phone outside in the rain ? yeah like teenagers always want to talk in private and a guy is following him in his suv , yeah what 17 year old wouldn't be walking nervous / suspicious at this point then the guy gets out of his car (1. trained not to , 2. instructed not to in his training by instructor as well a police officer, 3. has a coordinators manual outlining not to.) He goes against that all while the point reinforced by the police dispatcher . But that's what having a fire arm does on the street in the hands of those not trained to de-escalate a situation , all they know is that they have the ultimate equalizer and now he walks from his car and from the teenagers perspective, now in his direction. What teenage boy or man would not confront the follower and ask what's the problem ?
Now here is where it all gets sketchy , GZ says he then went for his phone which is usually in his pants pocket . . . . this is where he was punched .
Now I don't know about most of you men but from a young age if someone who I felt a threat from ( following me in the dark ) says nothing of who they are or their intent and now in arms length and after I'd ask whats the problem , they go to their waist side , this is where I'd probably be on the offensive as well. From here it's all GZ having to say what he needs to support justification of drawing his firearm and discharging it ending the life of another person . Trust me anything said would only support having to do so.

Real life , I've had my nose broken more times than most have stumped their toe and there is no back in place and cleaned up , I don't need to see a doctor . Head slammed to the concrete up to a dozen times , no skull trauma swelling of the brain , concussion , significant lacerations , major bruising or flow of blood enough to stain the back of ones clothes .
Well , we can monday morning QB this thing till GZ writes a book to keep telling himself and those willing to believe he was an unfortunate victim that had to kill a person that turned out not to be not out as he thought but since it's later found out he's not exactly the kid next door ( but he really was ) as long as those of like mind are desensitized to the loss of life of no matter how young if they fit the criterion of a what is deemed not supposed to be around . there are just more stories like this to be found in this great country of ours where we can go throughout the world telling others they are behind the times and uncivilized . When we still today have mothers like Trevon Martin that cry the same tears as that of the mother of Emmitt Till.

I have travelled this world and not visited but lived in other countries and as rough as things get and life styles and culture are different all everyone wants at the core is no more than to be able to see their family and friends grow , make a living and live to see another tomorrow . At it's best we have a great country it's my home no matter what other I go , I always return where my family and friends all live and I wouldn't change it for the world but I'd change it for a better world than the one it appears .
 

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I think it is important for distinguishing media. There are two types of media, opinion and factual. MSNBC, drudge, any talking head show (Maddow, Reilly) are all opinion.

For the factual ones (NBC, CNN and especially BBC,) they have to get viewers. As such they have to appeal to people, and people are interested in the Zimmerman trials.

I don't tink you can disregard journalism in general, there are some great journalists in Libya, Iran, Syria doing great work. It is just that much of their contributions are hidden behind Keith Oberman and Rush Limbaugh
NBC factual??? They altered audio of a phone call to make this a racial issue. It's not the first time they've been busted changing facts. Zimmermans lawyers say they will probably sue NBC and I hope they do, should be an open and shut case. As far as Drudge being opinion, it's a collection of different news outlets, go on the site and see
 
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