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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was looking for info on the DEC site but couldn't find anything definite. Does this ban include or exclude jigheads?
If anyone has any real information I would appreciate it.

This is what they say;

Non-toxic Sinkers and Jigs
The loss of sinkers and lures is a routine part of fishing. Unfortunately, lost sinkers, especially split shot, may be mistaken for food or grit and eaten by waterbirds such as ducks, geese, swans, gulls, or loons. Toxic effects of even a single lead sinker can cause birds to sicken and increases the risk of death through predation, exposure, or lead poisoning.

New York State recently passed legislation that will prohibit the sale of certain lead sinkers. Beginning in May 2004, the sale of lead fishing sinkers (including "split shot") weighing one-half ounce or less will not be permitted.

As responsible anglers, we should seek to reduce the unintended effects on the natural environment and leave no trace of our presence. A trip to your favorite tackle shop will reveal a variety of alternatives to lead split shot, sinkers and jig heads. By switching to non-toxic sinkers with your next purchase, you can assure that your fishing tackle choices are helping to reduce the risk of lead poisoning to birds.

Thanks,
Broadbill
 

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Wishin' I'm Fishin'
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Frank...

What materails will weight be made of???
Is Brass consider toxic, and to be banned too??
Very curious now....
Any mention if anglers can use what they have left, or is there a cut-off daate for use mentioned too??
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't really know for sure. I'm assuming that you can use up your stuff, I just can't sell more, but that may be wrong.
There are bullet weights and split-shot made out of steel, bismith, tin, ceramic and plastic, but I don't know about jigheads. I'm gonna start searching.

Broadbill
 

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Wishin' I'm Fishin'
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Frank [et al].

I have only seen three types of bullet sinkers so far, being lead, brass, and tungsten...with tungsten being the smallest[densest] per same weight, then lead, then brass being the largest.
How do the others size up??
And are brass weights being ruled out too??
Thanks again....
 

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This is not a bad bill. If they adopted the one we passed here in Maine. It lets Audobon feel good that they have done something and the fisherman can still use the lead that he already owns. He can use alternatives if he wants or purchase through mail order. The lead police won't be boarding your boat looking for contraban.
Loons, not ducks and geese, have a problem with lead. They use small stones in their crop to aid in digestion. If it should mistakenly pick up a small piece of lead it will not pass it as would other waterfowl; the lead will rattle around in the crop with other stones breaking down the lead and absorbing it into the blood stream killing the loon. This is a rare occurance.
Anglers should be very careful around loon nesting areas as the nesting loon is vunerable. The loon stays close to the nest and there is not always an abundance of small pebbles nearby. A piece of lead in the shallows near a nesting site is more likely to be selected.
Most of NY is not in the loons natural territory so unless you fish "loon" lakes you need not worry. Loons passing through are not vunerable.
 

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Thanks for that explanation Eric.

The concern for our water fowl over some lead split shots at the bottom of the lake has always baffled me. I mean how many birds actually gobble up rocks from the bottom of a lake anyway?? And even if they did what percentage would end up with a split-shot in their mouth????

Now my question is answered. I'm no longer gonna sprinkle split shots on the ground near a Loon nesting area. :p LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
My concern is not so much the weights. There are readily available substitutes. But I want to know if this includes jigs, slider heads and such.

Broadbill
 

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lurecrafter
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Sorry to play devil's advocate, but
1. There's no shortage of water fowl, especially geese. The things are filthy nuisances and in some places, will be poisoned or shot because of their numbers and the amount of feces accumulating on private and public properties.

2. Cormorants and other fish eaters are growing in numbers and can affect bass populations. I've seen the video on the Discovery Channel on how effective they are underwater, spearing bass with their pointed bills.

3. Granted, a great deal of us use sinkers of all kinds and shapes (including jigheads), over hardpack bottoms. But most of us I think use weights in deeper water, where water fowl isn't prone to muck around for little pebbles and such. In fact, muck is where I lose most of my lead weights and jigs. Unless water fowl have taken to sifting the mud for little pebbles, I doubt they could ever find anything I've lost due to a breakoff.

4. I'm all for disposing of refuse-line properly, but, If a few birds keel over because because of lead shot, so be it. I don't think the number of bird that die from lead poisoning has ever been surveyed by any organization because there has never been large numbers killed in any one area. In fact, probably very few lakes have even witnessed one dead bird. I know I haven't.

5. Pretty soon I'm afraid, we will all be renegade bassers due to over-regulation. As it is I can't get a straight answer why crappies are protected. They're a major problem in my local lake and the DEC won't lift a hand to eleviate their numbers because Cornell U. did a survey! I'm suspicious of any new regualtions affecting hunters and fishermen.

Just my take on a matter that shouldn't.

FrankM
 

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lead usage

In a conversation with DEC officer, I asked him the same Questions He stated that lead head jigs would ok. You can still use them. Lead split shot and, egg sinkers and bullet sinkers made out of lead would not be sold in 2004 and not to be used period in 2006. They will have a hard time enforcing that. are they gonna check you tackle box everytime your on the water. and what if you fish states that allow it????
Hope that helps
 

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lurecrafter
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Thanks Reelguy, I thought that's the way the new reg. read and the timing of it. Still have to find out about state park waters and N.Y.C. watershed fishing. My brother-in-law is known to exagerate with his Big Brother paranoia, so I always double check. Funny they still allow the use of lead jigheads, but not the sale of them.

Enforcement, as usual for a majority of waters, will be pretty difficult. Heck, they don't even check licenses due to manpower shortages and as with most DEC regs, voluntary compliance usually is the only way a reg will or will not be followed.

I'm not big on using split shot and don't mind using alternatives for bullet weights, as long as they're not outrageously expensive.

FM
 

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Give Me A Break!!!

The lead ban is Bulls#!t!!! The alternatives in my opinion suck!!! As far as the dead birds are concerned, we could use a few more dead birds!!! That's my opinion!!!

:beerchug: :D :cool:
 

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It is for the most part bullshit. I am though proud of the compromise passed here in Maine. Initially the bill called for a ban of all fishing tackle containing lead 2 ounces or less.This ban would have included spinnerbaits, jigs as well as sinkers. Through a great deal of grass roots effort we were able to convince our Fish and Wildlife committee that this was way overboard. Audubon makes a very convincing case, they have (1) a well funded organization, (2) an advocate in Dr. Porkras from Tufts who has studied this issue for 10 or so years (3) a legislature comprised of people who don't hunt or fish.
In the scheme of things a handful of loon deaths is not significant; tell that though, to a couple retired to "Golden Pond" who has a loon die or to one who remembers seeing loons on "their" lake but no more. I saw this bill as a small concession.
The only effect on Maines fisherman has been the lack of availability of 1/2 oz. or less lead sinkers at our local Walmart or Dicks and widespread availability of alternatives. Lead is still available from NBS or Bass Pro.
We all need to be Vigilant though, as Audubon will go after jigs eventually. Jig remnants have been found during loon autopsies.

These people are never satisfied for long! Invite your local legislator to go fishing with you.....you never know when you need a friend in high places.
 

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I hate to say it, but Im with Frank and Kenny C on this one....all species need some kind of predation to keep their populations in control, since we are not allowed to Actively kill these birds, so a few of them die indirectly via fishing lures........

in virtually all cases of animals vs human beings, I am on the side of the humans......LOL.....
 

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Man vs. animal

In almost all cases I err on the side of ANIMALS that are in all cases the species predated on. Nature has a natural way of maintaining its population. Mans ability to exercise his/her dominion is without question ever present and ever prevalent. We cry foul when someone infringes on what we consider our 'God' given right to do as we please. Unfortunately, a bird cannot. Is lead safe? Safe for birds? Safe for humans? Ask someone that has lead poisoning. Step up to the plate and start to consider MANS impact on the environment and maybe start to consider alternatives and ways of behaving that keeps nature in balance so that 10, 20, 100 years from now someone else can enjoy all that God has given us to which we are ultimately responsible. It is not an easy task but certainly possible. Can I give up lead without too much trouble? I think so.
 

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lurecrafter
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Nature has a natural way of maintaining its population.
Tell that to all the dock owners that have to contend with goose crap 3" thick on their docks or lawns or all the drivers that ran into, got hit by or were forced off the road by deer in Sullivan County. The picture of a starving deer (especially Bambi), makes me sadder than if a hunter shot the crap out of it to help control the overpopulation!

Loons and other valued birds that don't affect bass or other sportfish populations, should be helped to survive and stay in an area where people can enjoy them, (just like eagles and other bird-watcher delights.) The only problem is making a universal, statewide-regulation for non-migratory species or species not found on 80% of all N.Y.S. waters.

Also, PETA and other wacko organizations of their ilk continually fight for animal rights at the expense of sportsmen's rights. True sportsmen are conservationists and practice what they preach (i.e. catch-&-release, no-barb hooks for certain trout streams, less polluting engines, disposing of line that can entrap water fowl, etc.) But, PETA clowns don't wear plastic shoes or are universally vegatarian because their hypocrsisy has no bounds and they will continually strive to maniacally control sportsman through bribed, elected officials.

Frank
 

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True sportsmen are conservationists and practice what they preach
Lead is a toxic substance harmful to both man and animal. How difficult would it really be to find an alternative? Is the lead ban REALLY infringing on OUR rights as sportfisherman? Use brass. Tungsten. Show proof that lead is not toxic or show proof that using lead is good for the fish and bird population. Hunting and fishing are instincts that are built into animals genetic code. Man has that code too but also has a brain and the ability to reason and show emotion. Birds/animals/fish do what they are programmed to do and can do little else. Our impact can be either beneficial or harmful but it is choice we make when we understand the implications of our actions. Man intrudes on the environment with little regard for the impact. GE still has not fully admitted to polluting the Hudson. What if someone said 'If a few humans keel over because of some lead shot so be it'? Why is it okay for birds to 'keel over'?

I also do not recall me mentioning that I was a member of PETA. (I am not)

We will cry wolf when our docks get pooped on but do the animals say anything when we dump our waste on their homes? As hunters AND conservationists we can and should be more responsible and act with greater diligence than the average person.
 

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Guys, I know a little about the alternative metals. Tungsten is just as toxic as lead and actually contains lead, Brass is made up largely of lead. The only non lead alternatives I know of are bismuth and steel. Both are much larger in mass than lead and tungsten.
 

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Loons are the driving force behind these laws. Audubon is relentlless on this issue and nearly passed a stricter law than your new law in Minnesota. Fewer and fewer state legistlators hunt and fish and it will become easier and easier for rules like these to pass. In Maine we have a tournament every year where boaters are paired with members of the house and senate with the Governor. It has become quite a rivalry between the two chambers.

Earthworm is right in that brass and tungsten are equally dangerous. The reason these are not includeed in new law is that these materials have not turn up in carcasses....yet.

Waterfowl such as ducks and geese are not effected by lead so will do nothing to help the shit on the docks.

Lead used in tackle is not like the lead that used to be in gasoline....your lost sinker is not disloving into the water.
 
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