Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:
Partners vs individual?
Last year my club tried a
partners format (for the first time) for half the tournaments in which partners
were seleceted at random.
I liked it. I found it created a greater degree of comraderie on the boat and
it was just plain more fun.
For various reasons this year it was voted down.
I'd be interested to hear any opinions (pro or con) on a partners format and
also how to sucessfully set one up.
I need some ammunition to sway my clubs opinion (or mine).
__________________
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Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
call me.....
JP
You know my club is an ALL PARTNERS format. Give me a call and I will give you
the low down on what we do.
Scully
Posted by CUS on 2002 AM:
Possible things to
consider about team vs. individual
1. If you are trying to qualify a club team for the NYSBCF (comprised of the
club's top 6 anglers plus 2 alternates) a partner format may not be the best
solution.
2. Draw partner TEAM Format vs. pick your partner TEAM format: if you are
drawing partners to form teams then you still get good club interaction and
good interactive learning. Pick your partner, while fun because you typically
know and have a repoire with your partner, may not be the best learning tool.
For example, for the past 2 years I've fished with the same guy in any team
tournaments that come up. He is a great person, and a fantastic angler. But I
can pretty much tell you on a given day what baits/areas he'll fish and look
for (JUST AS HE CAN WITH ME). What makes our partnership work is we both are
confident doing different things and it rubs off on each of us.
But I would say we have passed the stage where either of us is going to show
the other something really new (or from a different perspective). Still doesn't
mean we aren't successful 
.
3. Draw partner tournaments take any potential for boater/non-boater issues out
of it. You are working as a team, and hence you should both have a vested
interest in your partner catching fish.
4. A potential scenario: if you have an angler who is new to the sport, some
experienced anglers may not like the fact that their success can be dictated by
their "forced" partner for that day. Many times two medium skilled
anglers can beat a good angler/poor angler team. Although I go back to, what is
your club's mission? If it is to learn, have fun, with some competition then
who cares?? If it is to cash a check, KILL, WIN, and have FULL FLEDGED
COMPETITION, then I could see resentment towards the less skilled anglers (and
see them bailing out).
5. Plus how do you give awards out in a draw partner TEAM format? You can't
have Team of the Year, Rookie Team of the Year, Most Improved Team, etc... because
guys are getting paired with different guys throughout the year. SCULLY: how do
you guys do that?? My brain isn't working enough this morning to think of how
that works.
I like the idea of having a combination of the two events.
Have individual points tournaments to determine things like Angler of the Year,
Rookie of the Year, Most Improved and then maybe have a couple of team
tournaments (either draw or pick your partner).
cus
Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:
We fish a team draw
style. We fish as a team(5 fish each), but maintain individual records for
Angler, Sportsman, and Rookie of the Year. Each boater fishes with each
non-boater sometime during the season. We also have 2 non-boaters that while
great members take a lot of patience to fish with so we are able to spread the
"misery." This promotes cooperation and learning. It also takes the
social aspects of finding partners out of play-which a social misfit like myself
has trouble with.
It seems to me in a partners club the new non-boater is going to be partnered
with the poorest boater.
Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Fishing with a team mate is just plain fun. I don't like to compete with a guy in the same boat. It's cool to plan something out with a partner, impliment it and have it be successful.
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Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
that's not always the case
Paul
The pairings in my club are left up to the individuals. What USUALLY happens is
that once the tournament schedule becomes available, guys begin to fill their
dance card. We have 50 members in Atlantic.....ONLY 2 teams fish together all the time.
We NEVER leave new guys hanging out in the wind so to speak. We make an EXTRA
effort to pair them up with experienced anglers. For a Partners Format to be
successful, everyone in the club has to give a little of themselves.
Quite a few of the new members we get are from other clubs. We have members in
our club from New
Jersey, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Connecticut.
The reason they left their old clubs was so that they could fish a club without
the problems inherent in an individual style format. I have guys tell me that
there are no problems in their club with guys fishing an individual
format....Baloney. I speak to those discontented guys on a weekly basis.
I know there are now a few clubs in New Jersey that have gone to a partners format as well as a few in Massachusets.
I have a friend who belongs to a club in Pennsylvania and his club will be going to a team/partners format this
year. He claims there are two other clubs in the state that have also gone to
team events.
Cus, as far as a problem with making a six man team from a partners format, we
have been doing it for 6 years and have only had a teaming pair make the 6 man
team ONCE.
I know that there is NO way the guys in my club would EVER go back to a singles
format. WE have removed the complaint of "front ending" from the
clubs vocabulary. lol (I was probably the worst for doing this, at least my
brother claims I was.)
Scully
Posted by Paul at home on 2002 PM:
Scully-
I thought the pairings would be for a season. Sounds like your system makes it
much better for the newer members.
Paul
Have you ckecked your pm's lately?
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
a fairly complicated system
Cus
Let me try to explain how my club functions utilizing a TEAM FORMAT.
As I stated above, there are only two teams that fish together on a rgular
basis. We have eleven tournaments each year of which you may count only eight
(3 drops). Some guys fish all 11, others try to fish the 8 to qualify for the
year end honors and the Angler of The Year title.
Last year out of 50 members, 18 members fished all 11, while 24 members fished
the qualifying 8. Using me as an example. I fished 10 tournaments with 5
different anglers. Our clubs Angler of The Year competed in all 11 events and
fished with 5 different partners as well. He and I did not fish together during
the club season, but we do pair up for Open tournaments from time to time.
The two teams that pair up most often finished in the clubs "Top Ten"
standings. Both teams fished all 11 tournaments and switched partners once
during the season. In my club we stress the learning aspect of the sport. While
things are not what you might call "cut throat", the competition is
still quite intense.
We leave the pairings up to the individuals, but constantly mention the need to
"switch up" . We NEVER leave the new guys out. We weave them into the
flow as much as humanly possible. Sometimes we do miss a trick or two, but not often
I can ssure you.
The way our point system works is.....If you and your partner win a tournament,
you both receive the 25 points. Whatever you and your partner do, you share the
outcome. We do award a "bonus point" for tournament lunker. That
point is not shared.
Our "Angler of The Year, Rookie of The Year, etc are determined by a point
system. Below
1st 25
2nd 23
3rd 21
4th 19
5th 17
6th 15
7th 14
8th 13.....CONTINUING DOWN TO 1 POINT. If you dont catch fish, "you dont
gets no points".
We keep track of the TX weight and at the end of the season we award bonus
points for you overall weight standings. As an example lets look at my year. I
finished the season with 153 tournament points which were a tie for 7th place
overall. I finished the year with 126.00 pounds total weight which was 1st in
the club which earned me a bonus 25 points (the second place angler in total
weight would receive 23 bonus points, etc down the line.) Add 153 TX points and
my bonus weight points of 25 and I finished the year with 178 points. Good for
5th place overall.
We also award 5 Bonus points if you break any of the Clubs "BIG FIVE"
club records.
1. Wins In A Season (6)
2. Total Weight (139.01)
3. Big Bag (18.14)
4. Mr. Largemouth (6.14)
5. Mr. Smallmouth (4.08)
I dont mean to blow my own horn but while we were an Individual Tournament
club, I won the Angler of The Year awrd 7 out of the 8 years. I would usually
be so far ahead by August that the Tx field would drop. Since we have gone to
the TEAM format I have won only twice in the last 7 years. Best of all the AOY
race goes right down to the wire, sometimes the last day of the season. The
suspense is incredible. The Bonus weight can throw a real monkey wrench into
things along with the three drops. The last day of the Classic, I have half the
club in the room checking to see if they finished high enough to make the TOC,
or who won the Rookie of The Year or AOY crown.
Sometimes it seems like it wont all work out, but it always does. There has
never been a tie for any top award. Two years ago the Angler of the Year race
saw the top five seperated by 4 and 1/2 points....I went in to the last
tournament (Oneida) with a 1 point lead and came out in 4th place 4 points
back. INTENSE COMPETITION.
I will shut up now....lol
Scul
Posted by Gregg on 2002 PM:
Scully sure sounds like your club really has a handle on all of this stuff. A system that good does not happen overnight. Must have been a lot of work to get it to where it is now.
__________________
Gregg
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
a lot of hard work
Gregg
It took a load of hard work as well as some trial and error. A lot of input
went into the planning as well as the implimentation. It could not have been
done with out the dedication and inspiration of a certain few individuals
within the club who were constantly "tweeking and tinkering" to come
up with a final workable product.
Scully
Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:
quote:
Fishing with a team mate is just plain fun. I don't like to compete with a guy in the same boat. It's cool to plan something out with a partner, impliment it and have it be successful.
Craig,
Through both my own clubs points trail, as well as the Federation points trail,
I always try to work with my partners in a "team atmoshpere". Like
you said, it is more fun, makes the day go faster because you are constantly
communicating and let's face it, two heads trying to figure the fish out is
ALOT better than one. In these situations, I'd like to see both of us come into
the scales with big bags of fish, instead of just one or the other.
If I want to fish team tx's, there are always tons of local opens that offer
that for me, and I do take advatage any time I can. It is fun, it is
satisfying, it is all good. But when I want to chase points to see how I stack
up against others, individual is the way for me.
In the last 5 years, STBM has had 5 different Anglers Of The Year. It ALWAYS
comes down to the last points tx to decide the AOTY, and usually the top 6 are seperated
by just a fish or two.
Besides, we are not fishing against each other anyway, we are fishing against
the "little fishies"!! 
__________________
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Look at WNY's Bass Fishing
- Protection
and organization of your rods
"Perhaps God gave the answers, to those with nothing to say" -
Savatage
Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:
Ray,
Very interesting, complicated but interesting. I like the points system and I
certainly like the team format. But it sure does sound like a lot of work
figuring it all out.
Would a system such as this work in a club as small as mine (16 members)?
Noel, what you say is true in my club as well. We work together. But how much
joy do you feel when your partner lands a 6 lber. when you have a well full of
pound and a halfers?
__________________
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Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:
P.S.
Highest wieght and 7th in
the points? That might bum me out a little..
..LOL
__________________
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Posted by Lpbassman on 2002 PM:
Hey John P,
At Outcast we have the best of both worlds and it seems to work fine for us. We
have 3 team tourneys a year--2 pick your partner and 1 draw. While the TEAM
weight is counted for the finish in these TX's for our meager prize monies or
trophies, the INDIVIDUALS weight is counted for Angler of the year / Points
Champion and Rookie of the year. Doing things this way it does not really
matter if you are fishing with a partner who is less experienced. While you may
not win the team event, your individual weight gets credited to you as if it
were a regular Tx.
I have to agree with Cus in the respect that I am not as apt to LEARN anything
new when fishing with my regular partner as I am if I am fishing with some one
I dont usually fish with. We know eachother a long time and are both
experienced anglers, but theres always somebody who can teach you a new trick
or two. There are a few guys in my club who are more at a novice level than myself
and I really and truely ENJOY sharing my knowledge and techiniques with the
guys who want to learn. I know that I have helped make a few of these guys
better fisherman. Now if I can only keep them out of my spots!!
There are few guys who I
want to fish with next year because I know that they can teach me a thing or
two and visa versa.
YO--Pres, Rat, V-pres, OG, Vito-----I'm waiting
__________________
"early to bed, early to rise-fish like hell and make up lies"
Posted by Woody on 2002 AM:
Food for thought....
I would think MIXING it
up would benefit the Non Boater in ANY club.
You have an oppurtunity to see how every make and model boat work under
different conditions that might help you in the future purchase of a Bass Rig.
You learn different bodies of water through different eyes....
You get an oppurtunity to fish with the BEST fisherman in the club....and Learn
You socially intereact with more club members...
There would never be a situation where the cards could be considered
"Stacked".....
I understand both sides of the coin....These are just some observations...
Tight Lines,
Woody
Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:
woody - always looking to
learn more. gotta love the attitude. it makes sense to you and me, but not to a
compettitive guy looking to win big. a club in northern NY i know of.. you get
shot for looking at a guys baits. everyything under wraps, ya know. these guys
are all out for the huge bag, and laugh when you DNW.
on the other hand, some small clubs you will see guys riding up to each other
exchanging ideas while fishing... "i'm on, full bag, and i am using
_______."
differnent strokes.
you and i see eye to eye about the way we like to do these things, but another
may not.
this is where it becomes tough. many guys will say they want a friendly club
environment, and i belv that they do. i think it is close to impossible to
attain a utopia bass club. guys just get ultra competitive.
finding the harmony that guys like scully, and nicks club have is tough. i give
you tons of credit. like craig posted earlier.. scullys club runs really
smooth.. is there BS - Yes! it is unavoidable in these environments. can it be
kept in check - yes! scullys club and the outcast guys have proven that.
my idea on partner, team, individual is this.
love partner and team stuff. hate the individual. only from a limited
experience though. i like going out with a partner and with a similar goal. fishing
against a boater or non-boater just seems to bring on bad vibes. i wanted to go
here, but joey ramrod went here and he blew it for me. partner and team events
seem to build a relationship for the duration that both guys are in it togeter.
save the individual stuff for solo comps. 1 guy.. 1 boat. classic style. once
again my opinion.
woody - i like the idea of fishing with someone new all of the time. that is
how you learn. i would be in a rut if i had not spent a day with you and george
on that little lake. his ideas carried over into my fishing and i started
landing fish in spots i would not have tried, and with baits i would have just asume
left in the box. plus you get to meet new folks.
i still enjoyed the time spent with my dad on the water this year. that was a
plus. we talked, fished, planned, exchanged ideas, and had fun.
i just want to fish!!!! lol.
__________________
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We're talking about "Spring" fishing...... right?
Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Like I said Noel, the partner thing is fun and interesting, to me, singles was purely mechanical. I did not enjoy it despite finishing very well alone.
__________________
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Posted by joe pido on 2002 AM:
"It seems to me in a
partners club the new non-boater is going to be partnered with the poorest
boater."
Not really Paul. Last year ( my first year with Atlantic), I was lucky enough to hook up with the previous years'
AOY ( NYBASS member CRawdaddy). What a learning experience. The guy showed me
how to fish plastics with deliberate, subtle moves of the rod and fishing with
patience. Things that really improved my fishing this year.
This year, most of the new non boaters that joined the club really helped some
of our boaters standings. Some talented and experienced non boaters indeed. Cant
wait for next season.
In my case, I hooked up with a few talented boaters this year, including Ray Scully
, the jig master. Not only did I learn Ray's spots at Candlewood , but he
taught me how to fish heavy jigs in the grass with deadly efficiency.
And to prove that everybody helps one another at Atlantic, a HOF member recently showed me the ins
and outs of Rattle Trap fishing ( watch out, dominic! ). Imagine that. Here's a
guy, who together with his partner forms one of the teams to beat , took some
of his time to show me all he knew about fishing a bait we all consider a no brainer.
And I'm pretty sure most of the guys in our club knows his stuff too.
In my opinion, a team format brings out intense competition and at the same
time harmony and camaraderie within the club.
joe
Posted by Dean on 2002 AM:
quote:
Besides, we are not fishing against each other anyway, we are fishing against the "little fishies"!!
Excellent point Noel. I hear lots of guys worrying about how so and so did or I
want to kick this one's rear. You worry too much how someone else is doing and
you might take yourself out of it. We need to focus on those dang fishies.
quote:
I always try to work with my partners in a "team atmoshpere
Noel
quote:
on the other hand, some small clubs you will see guys riding up to each other exchanging ideas while fishing... "i'm on, full bag, and i am using _______."
Rob L.
Two more great quotes. Every tournament I have fished in Outcast, it has been
my experience(I can't speak for others), that we have worked together to come
up with a game plan, find fish, and find out what seems to be working. My box
is open to the guy I am fishing with and vice versa. It has always been that
way so far. Nothing makes me happier than we both have limits and had fun out
there. I have yet to have a disagreement with guys about where to fish or
making changes. Again I can only speak for my experiences. Also it has been my
experience that there are several guys who will actually try to help you out on
the water. And I try to do the same if I can.
quote:
But how much joy do you feel when your partner lands a 6 lber. when you have a well full of pound and a halfers?
It would be tough JP, but I don't see too many 6 lbers., so I have to admit,
I'd be pretty happy. I gotta think that guys coming in first with a good anchor
like that.
By the way, if the format works for whatever club you may happen to be in, then
so be it. That's all that really matters. To all the guys here on the island,
if you're not happy with the club you're in, join another! There's plenty of
them around and it seems to me like the guys in their respective clubs are
happy with the way they work! Great discussion.
Posted by Woody on 2002 PM:
Of Course....I
see it a little differently
I look at the whole
experience as a team event.
I will NEVER forget the look on a fellow members face when his 3+ pound SMALLIE
shook the hook away from the boat....I did EVERYTHING in my power to stretch
and contort to land that fish.
He mentined later "I thought there wasn't a chance in hell.... You would
be able to net that fish"
Was I fishing against him....You bet
Was I HAPPY for him....You Bet
Do I get happy EVERY SINGLE TIME someone lands a fish on the boat I am on.. You
Bet
Am I Competetive...You Bet (I played Competeive Fast Pitch Softball until three
years ago...I was the catcher....My body said "No" after years of
Lacrosse and just about EVERY Sport you can imagine)
I don't have years of experience in the Tournament Scene to judge how a
Partner/Individual Setup would change MY philosophy.
When and if I feel the effects of the BS that I have been reading about here or
the "holier than thou" attitude that I often hear about....I am gone
I am part of an Organiztion that I am PROUD to be affiliated with.
We do work with the Handicapped and a myriad of other things to help our
community and to promote fishing...
Whatever Club you belong too....Partners or Individual...Have Fun...(I know I
am)
I think that is what we ALL need to concentrate on...
My 02,
Woody
P.S.
I would like to thank Blue for the positive things that he brings and
represents in Tournament Fishing. I was fortunate enough to attend a meeting or
two with Atlantic and it was after that ...I decided to join a club.(Distance
and wok prohibited me joining Atlantic...I found a club three miles away that
reminded me of the class folks I met at Atlantic.)
From some of the posts I read previously....Some of you are attending the WRONG
meetings...
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
I would disagree
Lpfshman
I would have do disagree with your. Its been my experience that when your
fishing with someone who you are compeating against you learn far less than if
you were fishing with him has your partner.
As an example, having looked at this from both sides, here is my take about
fishing an individual format.
If you were fishing against me in a tournament, I couldnt care a "plug
nickel" if you caught a fish or not. Thats just the nature of the beast. I
am competing against you. I cant be concerned about waht your doing. I need to
be focused on what I am doing...period. Sure you may see me catch a limit of
largemouth on a 5/16 Stanley Jig in 6 feet of water,
BUT....did you know that I was swimming the jig, and that I had a mini/rattle
in the plastic craw trailer that I had trimed down because the bites were
short. Were you aware that I was not just fishing docks, but a particular
section of each dock?
You may have by being VERY observant, but the average back of the boat
fisherman is not going to pick up on these subtelties. If I am fishing against
him I may share some info, but I am certainly not going to" spill my
guts" to him.
If your my PARTNER for the day you are going to get my "A Game",
because I WANT you to put fish in the boat. Your going to get a soup to nuts
clinic, and then some. If your a beginner, your going to learn how I catch
fish, and why WE were catching them where we were.
Hey JP.......thats the GREAT thing about team tournaments, you are high fiveing
the guy with the 6 pounder if he IS YOUR PARTNER, and cursing him under your
breath if he's not. Its a long ride home if your the non-boater and your
partner, the boater, won the tournament and is celebrating with yippeees and yahhhos,
while your sitting there in silence. Yes you shared everything, the gas the
tolls the launch fee....but you arent shareing the success.
Here's the deal in a nut shell. We tried Individual tournaments for 8 years. We
have been fishing team events for 7. The most ,members we had when we fished
individually was 32. We now have 50 and have to turn them away. There isnt ONE
guy in the club who would turn back the clock.
Dont get me wrong, while I may disagree, I do understand there is something to
be said for "mano a mano" competition. It just doesnt do anything for
me anymore.
Scul
Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
some intereseting info
I did a bit of checking
and "snooping" and came up with some eye opening information. First,
I spoke with the president of another area club and asked him if he could do a
bit of record hunting for me. The hunt was to find out how many times in his
clubs history did the non-boater win a tournament. The results were that over a
7 year period of 55 tournaments, only 6 times did a non boater win a club
event.
I did the same research regarding my club. From 1988 to 1996, actually 1991
thru 1996. (the first two years, our club fished only "Walkaround
Tournaments" on the NYC watershed reservoirs) Out of a total of 67
tournaments, only 8 times did a non boater take the walk into the winners
circle.
Very interesting food for thought.....
Scully
Posted by wnybassman on 2002 AM:
Ray, I agree that it is a
rarity that a non-boater finds himself (or herself) in the winners circle, but it
does and can happen.
I must bring up the point that in the Federation trail of 2001, 2nd place
overall was a non-boater all year (and won a tournmaent on Lake Champlain along the way). And if I'm not
mistaken, there was another non-boater in the overall top 5 as well. In a
competitive level as high as the Federation, this is a huge accomplishment.
Also, this past year in my own club, John Siejak (Sea Jack) finished 2nd
overall in the club. At the last points tournament, it came down to a 1/2 pound
whether he would be Angler of the Year or not! Another huge accomplishment.
John did break (and set) our club record for yearly weight with his efforts
though.
Again, just interesting information here, but not really useful information.
__________________
Bassman's Thread of the Web - A
Look at WNY's Bass Fishing
- Protection
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"Perhaps God gave the answers, to those with nothing to say" -
Savatage
Posted by Woody on 2002 AM:
Scul...
Very Interesting( not
really surprising)... I have an idea
Have EVERYONE in the back save their money and BUY a BOAT...
Then they can have the advantage that every boat owner has from being in the
front.
Woody
Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
useful, perhaps not...but then again
Noel
There are contradictions in all things that are non-sequiter. There are even
cases of Ostrichs that can fly, but that doesnt mean they all can. Can a non
boater experience success in a club environment or Federation venue? Obviously.
The point I was trying to make was that IMHO as a non boater, a true NON-BOATER
(someone who doesnt own a boat) has very little chance to succeed in a
tournament on a SINGULAR basis. Percentages will bear this out.
I believe, again IMHO, that a non-boater, beginner has a much better chance to
LEARN how to bass fish in a Partner Format than a singular one. It is inherent
in a singular tournament format that the boater is in the drivers seat so to
speak. He is the Captain of the ship and the crew goes where he takes the ship.
I am not talking here about Federation where the non-boater is entitled to HIS
TIME in the front of the boat. Most clubs do not adhere to that policy in club
events. I knew of three clubs that did. Nassau County Bass, Tri County Bass,
and Edgewater bass. None of these clubs are in existence anymore.
Most people who know me will admit....I give out more information than the
average guy. However, I know PLENTY of anglers in who wouldnt tell you the time
of day if they were competing against you, in or out of the boat. As I mentioned....Its
the nature of the beast. I have fished Federation & Red Man A few good
experiences, a few bad experiences. Did I learn anything from those
experiences...of course. I fished Foxwoods for three years in a partner
tournament....Had a much better time. Besides, fishing aginst the best anglers
in the northeast, 2 in a boat was for us a lot more competitive in our minds
than any other trail we could possibly fish except the TOP 150 trail.
Scully
Posted by jiggin-n-piggin on 2002 AM:
I definitely agree with
Noel’s points! Can you tell that we’re from the same club?
A bass club should promote an environment of learning and mutual respect. If it
doesn’t, is it really a “club”? I feel that the only way to accomplish this, is
with a true “draw format”. Every non-boater has a chance to get with some of
the more experienced anglers in the club and lean. In our club, I know of no
one that has held back from their non-boater partner. Most of our guys will go
out of their way to help their non-boater try to catch his fish. It is also a
good way to prepare newer guys to the experience of a draw format, for if and
when they decide to move up to a new level, i.e. Federation, BFL, etc.
As Noel said, there are a ton of open partner tournaments out there, and I
enjoy fishing them. But, I really like the draw format and the challenge it
provides, for me as a boater and the non-boater, alike. And, if my non-boater
partner kicks my butt (wouldn’t be the first time) then I feel that I did my
job, and I’m happy for him/her.
C’ya on the water,
Ted
Posted by CUS on 2002 AM:
Well said
Ted,
Couldn't agree more with yours (and Noel's) sentiments.
For a draw tournament to work effictively a couple of important keys have to be
met.
1. Do you have club rules that support a draw format... ie. enforce equal
sharing of time up front.
2. Does your club's mission promote learning? Do your officers and established
members live and breath that mission?
3. Do you have officers that lead by example, promoting good on the water
behavior? Inviting non-boaters up front, constantly asking "hey are you
okay with what we're doing" or "have you got any suggestions"...
Bass fishing a draw tournament has a great deal to do with being able to
understand and work together with another person. Even if it is a stranger.
My approach when fishing a draw tournament is I want to win(or do well), but
the person I want to finish second (or win if I can't) is in the boat with me!
And I know that unless we both work together neither of us will experience
success. Two heads are definitely better than one!
cus
PS: I'm speaking as a person who fished boater from 1996-2000 and as a
non-boater during 2001 and 2002. I won more tournaments from the back of the
boat, 3 in 2 years vs. 2 in 5 years in the front. So don't ever let someone
tell you being in the back of the boat is a hindrance!! Use your brain and fish
effectively!
Posted by Seth V on 2002 AM:
Guess I am in the same club with Ted and Noel...
I also like the partner
draw and individual scoring. There are plenty of team events if that is what
you really want to do(I like those also). I am considering going as a non
boater in our club next year even though I have a boat sitting at home. Why? I
want to learn. We have some great fishermen in our club, and they have been
fishing local water longer than I have been alive. I have never seen much of
the water on our 2003 schedule. I compete against fish, not the guy in the
front/back. If I am doing the best job against the fish, then I don't need to
worry about the other guy. Besides, a club is about fun and learning, not
making a living ($$).
Seth V
Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:
the non boater info scully
posted is interesting. i have not seen enough tx's or individual tx's to say,
but it makes sense. unless the non b is an exceptional fisherman, on the boat
of another exceptional fisherman... you get the point.
ps- i created a new rule for our club. the AOY has to fish as a non boater the
year after they win the title. jk c.
woody - right on. it would be smart to get your own craft if you were looking
to score big on the water, or alternate as i know one club does.. 4 hours and 4
hours. you have to trust the guy in the front of your boat though.. that can be
a tall order.
i have it easier, because dad doesn't like to be in the front. he'd rather
concentrate on fishing, and not fight the wind and currents.
robbie
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Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:
This one is an
interesting read, but goes on and on, here is my conclusions after reading all
of the points of view:
IF you don't have a boat and are not that experienced, then joining ANY club
gives you opportunities to fish that you don't have now and should be worth
your while.
IF you don't have a boat, but would like to fish with many different people,
then join a club that does both Partners and uses a draw system to mix it up.
IF you prefer to fish alone, then simply find a club that allows that and fish
alone all you want.
IF you want partners, but want to be with one friend all the time to develop a
consistent team plan and whatever, then choose a club that allows you to pretty
much pick your own partner for most events.
Period: determine first, what you want , and then, find out which club offers
that for you....and if you can't get it all from one club, then join two and
fish half the events for each one.
JOHN G
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Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
a great post
Its obvious from their
posts that Noel, Ted and Seth have a well run club. I believe, though I may be
wrong, that their club is made up of mostly boaters, which would neccessitate the
need for a "draw pairings"
Here on Long Island this is not the case. Most of the
clubs here try to maintain a 60/40 boater/non boater ratio. In fact, in my
club, Atlantic, two boaters are PROHIBITED from fishing together unless all non
boaters have been paired.
Partner draws such as Noel mentioned above have not had much success here.
Those clubs folded for one reason or another, but mostly because of personality
conflicts. The draw format forced certain anglers to fish together, weather
they wanted to or not. Maybe its me , but I know if I tried to FORCE people to
fish together that didnt want to fish together, neither of them would fish. The
following week they would be looking to join another club.
One other thing I noticed in this thread as well. It seems many of the clubs
up-state have a relativley small club tournament schedule of say 4 to 6 events. They tailor these around Federation and
Open events. Here on Long
Island, the reverse
is true. Most of these clubs have between 8 and 12 events and very few if any
have much to do with the Federation or open tournaments with the exception of
the Alliance Opens. The club is everything.
It is my belief that the clubs here on Long Island place more emphasis on their overall club schedules than
Federation schedules.I know my club members are more excited about making the 6
man Challenge Cup team than they are the 6 man State Team. I have been told its
that way in a few other Alliance clubs as well. Perhaps the travel
has a great deal to do with that fact.
The important thing is that if it works for you, there is no need to fix it.
When you boil it down to the nuts and bolts, its all about fun and fishing....
Scully
Posted by jiggin-n-piggin on 2002 PM:
You got
it!!
quote:
The important thing is that if it works for you, there is no need to fix it. When you boil it down to the nuts and bolts, its all about fun and fishing....
Scully,
You hit the nail, right dead center!!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it! And, what might work for us, might not work
for you. Your lakes and situation may dictate a different approach. I don't
think there is any one right way.
We do have a well-run club and it seems that most everyone likes things the way
they are. When I started STBM, it was with the Federation in mind, and we do
have many more boaters than non-boaters. The one thing that I do think keeps
things going well, is that we don't make a lot of whole-sale changes, year to
year. We try to stay consitant in everything we do. People know what to expect.
A lot of things were put into the by-laws, at the beginning, to keep people
from making a lot of changes, at will. It's a little more difficult to change
things, this way. And, our club lives by these by-laws.
Go with whatever works for you and have fun with it! Life's too damn short to
get all bent out of shape over things that really don't matter.
C'ya on the water,
Ted
Posted by bink on 2002 PM:
My club has done a draw format the last year and for next year we are switching to Partners for several reasons. Several people complained that thier partner was less than fair in sharing the water and twice i myself had boaters say to me they were sorry but they needed fish to make the state team or they had a personal reason they had to catch more fish than someone else. Another reason we are doin it is most or all of us fish opens like the New Hampshire BASS opens(3 a season) and those of course are partner tournaments so to be competivtive in those type events you need a partner you can plan/fish with, those bigger T's are Team not draw. the other reason is in my small club we had all become friends with different people due too many things, for example my partner lives 10 miles away has a very loose schedule and becasue of this we pre fished alot together even with the draw format and we became friends, i know what he likes to use and vice versa. I would say if your club does Draw and it works for you I enjoyed it a lot and learned a ton but by the third year I was with boaters with less ability than some of us non boaters. We shall see how my club handles this partner idea.
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