Posted by OnceBitten on 2002 AM:

Non-boaters, tourney's and random thoughts...

There are three major threads on this forum being discussed. One involves fishing from the back of the boat, the other two are trying to sort out who are bigger "pussy wimps", tourney guys or non-tourney guys. Great threads.

I'm a non tourney guy, cut and dried. I've done two in my life, both with Seth, and had a great time. Not because it was a tourney, just because Seth is a great guy and alot of fun to fish with. With that being said, I have two thoughts:

1) While I certainly understand why alot of you like tourney's, here's why I avoid them. I've always fished (and hunted) to relax. I've got a ton of stress in my life from work, and nothing is better for my soul then to take the boat out all by myself, smoke a few Gloria Cubana's, have a beer or two, and catch some fish. If it's a hot day , I'll dive in and swim around for awhile. If my friends are out on their pleasure boats, I'll cruise over, tie up and party with them for awhile. Basically, I just go where the spirit moves me with no schedule what so ever. Very relaxing.

Now with a tourney, you HAVE TO be at the launch at a specific time. You HAVE TO fish that lake. You HAVE TO fish with the partner you draw. You HAVE TO wear a life jacket and kill switch. And you HAVE TO be back at the launch at _:__o'clock. Furthermore, you need to pre-fish if you expect to do well, so if that lake is 50 miles away, you'd better plan on taking a day or two off from work, and in some cases, booking a hotel room. Now in my opinion, that's alot of things I HAVE TO do. Not very relaxing. But hey, if that's your thing, more power to you.

2) When I did fish with Seth in those two tourney's, I fished out of his rig. It was the first time in years I fished on a boat other then my own. And you know what? It was GREAT! I didn't have to DO anything!

Do non-boaters realize how great you've got it? I realize fishing out of the back of the boat isn't always great, but... When someone calls me and says "hey, let's go fishing", they think to themselves, I've got a few poles and some tackle in the truck, I'm all set. But I have to consider running home, uncovering the boat, hooking the trailer up to the truck, loading all my gear into the boat and putting all the electronics on. Then I might have to stop at a gas station and fill the beast up, (better check the oil while I'm thinking about it, I'm also assuming that all 3 batteries are all charged up and ready to go) then haul the rig down to the boat launch, wait in line, and finally get it in the water. It's not always easy to do on a moments notice. Of course afterwards, getting home late, dead tired and in the dark, I get to back my rig up into the driveway and behind the house, (no easy task where I'm living now). Then I'll unload all my gear and electronics from the boat, put the cover back on and drag out the extension cord to plug the charger back in. Once home, I need 30 minutes to put the boat away.

Of course no one here thinks boats are cheap. They drink gas at a pretty good clip, outboards are famous for very high repair bills, props are not cheap, you can't have a boat without some electronics, (more $$$$$), lots of guys have monthly payments on the boat itself plus the insurance. Don't forget the trailer and maintence...

It all adds up pretty quick, so quick in fact that when someone fishes with me then pulls out thier wallet at the end of the day, I almost laugh out load. I really appreciate the gesture! Don't get me wrong! But I never except gas money and I feel bringing the boat and paying the expenses is what I'm "bringing to the table". Besides, I'm thousands of dollars in the hole, keep your 20 bucks. LOL! Most of the people I fish with know me well enough that they know how I am, so they'll bring food or drinks, maybe some cigars, whatever. They make a nice gesture, sometimes a really nice gesture, like RobJ surprising me with decals for my boat. I like fishing with them, and they enjoy fishing with me. That's what's important to me.

So anywho...... next time one of you guys is tempted to smack the boater over the head with your flipping rod, think about all the extra effort he (or she) has made to bring the fully equiped boat, (with some storage cleared out for your stuff too). Also think how bad they might feel about not putting the two of you on fish. In rough water or high wind, boat control can be a total nightmare as well, and it only makes it harder when you're trying to position the boat for two people!

Sometimes being the boater is a real pain in the ass. Trust me. One of the nicest days I had I on the water this year was on Keuka with GangGreen. He knows the lake better then I so I asked him to take the bow, I jumped in back and just fished. I didn't have to think about boat control, keeping our depth, weaving around the docks, current, finding fish, none of that. It was great! I just fished!

I certainly not suggesting that anyone was bashing boaters (or non-boaters) on any of the other posts. I just hadn't seen anyone point out a few of these issues, so I thought I'd post.

Fred

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

hey fred.

great post. i know alot of boaters that give, give, give. i have fished with some really generous guys... including you. my hat is off to all boaters. thanks guys, and i don't take the ride lightly.

kenny c, fred, john g, roland, woodster, barry, noel, joe TKO.........

i know all of you guys put ungodly hours into maintaining the crafts you own.

thanks again guys.

once i am a boater, you are all welcome to join me.

god knows i will be asking maitanance advice on a regular basis.

robbie

__________________
www.Theole34.com
We're talking about "Spring" fishing...... right?

Posted by Woody on 2002 PM:

Excellent Points

I am in a pretty unique situation...
I own a BassBoat and DON"T use it to "T" fish...The club I am affiliated with has enough boaters. When I officially become a member I get on line.
I also pleasure fish a great deal so I can use my boat !!!!
I know what it is to wake up extra early to make sure the rig is up to snuff...gas...wear and tear on the vehicle ect.
I DO offer and PAY every time I am in the back of somebodies bassboat....It is the least I can do.
I joined a club so I can
1) Learn BIGGER bodies of water
2) Fish on a regular schedule
3) To meet and fish with Excellent Fisherman
4) To learn
The "Stress" that you are alluding too effects people in different ways.
I played competitive sports my whole life and get somewhat of a rush in competition....It is a good thing for me
I DO NOT TAKE MYSELF TOO SERIOUSLY
My experience so far has been great....If I ever lose the "fun" part...I always have a great boat to fish from...Recreationally.
One of my favorite times fishing was joining a club and going to Lake Champlain with a bunch of strangers...Bye the end of the weekend I made 20 friends...We had a blast
(I was also fortunate to catch some nice fish)
I don't get stressed at all dealing with Tournament Fishing..
How can I ....I suck
My.02
Woody

Posted by jiggin-n-piggin on 2002 PM:

Excellent Post....

quote:

I just hadn't seen anyone point out a few of these issues, so I thought I'd post.

Fred,

You told it like it is!

Most guys I have fished with, understand all that. But there are always a few that never think about all the stuff that's done "behind the scenes" for that day on the water. I just spent the better part of 2 days to put her up for the winter. I like to make sure that it's done properly so that I won't have any problems, come Spring. Way too much $$ tied up in my rig, to let it go to hell.

I'm one of those that fishes tournaments, every weekend, from May through (at least) November. For me, that IS my relaxation. It's hard to explain, but I like it that way. Somebody's always going to tell me where to be and when to be there. So, it might as well be for something I enjoy.

C'ya on the water,
Ted

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

Very good post & replies.

I share alot of the feelings with the guys that have posted above. For me also, Tournament fishing is both Fun & relaxing. I enjoy it . For me I'd rather fish a tournament then fish recreationally. But that's just me. I love the compitition atmosphere as much as the fishing itself. I love to try to unlock the pattern on any given day within an alotted time while competing aganst other anglers. The whole deal is just a rush!

The rigging, trailering and traveling long distances in the wee hours of the morning are all part of what I love about this thing.

__________________
bass,bass,baby!

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:

Fred, you have put some fantastic wisdom into eloquent words, I truly enjoyed every bit of your post!!

the replies are good also.....especially that Woody character, is he really a fisherman? LOL........

hope this generates more action...

JOHN G

__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one another"
---------------------------------
> email - DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
---------------------------------
Quote: "coming soon"
---------------------------------

Posted by animal on 2002 AM:

boaters are# 1

I have fished for two years in a club as a non boater . And i agree with everything that has been said . I do not think some of the other non boaters realize what these guys put into owning a boat. we just go out and fish with them and have a great time and mostly our job is done . we say thanks and go home while they do most of the work . shure we help clean up and put in gas and tx fees but it is just a drop in the bucket compared to what they do for us. any way I just wanted to say thanks for everything . you have made this past two years really great . mike

Posted by joe pido on 2002 AM:

GReat points, Fred. The things that Woody mentioned pretty much summarizes the reasons why I joined a club, tx fishing. To me, both types of fishing cannot be compared . I find myself fishing at a faster pace at a tx, than fishing alone, for example. And yes, I catch bigger fish on practice days than the actual tx day itself, LOL.

I too, like competition. I like to think that I thrive under pressure. My coworkers certainly mention that to me all the time at work. And to be able to do different things at the same time efficiently is a plus. To fish under duress and catch fish is a testimony of ones strong personality.

To be a tx angler and be at least moderately successful, I think, one has to be, not only be physically prepared, but mentally and emotionally as well. With the boat and gear ready to go, hopefully, you are mentally ready to go also and face the rigors of fishing, from the time of the launch to the time putting away the boat at home. Having a positive feeling will certainly help, win or lose. Remembering that tx fishing can be very competetive, having FUN is also important. Most recreational anglers dont realize that part.

THe boaters certainly carry bigger risks than the guy in the back. And I understand that very well. I try to help out as much as possible, meaning, treating his boat like it was mine. If you are in the market thinking of purchasing a boat, spend a couple of years in the back first. You will learn a lot. I know I still am.

Great post, Fred...

joe

Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 AM:

thanks to all the boaters who have taken me out with them from n.y.bass!!!being that i can't afford a bass boat yet,it is a real treat to not have to row.all the guys i have fished with have always made sure i catch fish.my brother in law has a boat but never takes me out.he asked me when i told him that you guys take non-boaters all the time,"why do they do that?what's in it for them?"i replied by saying that you guys were some of the best guys i have met and that the friendships that develop are why we do it.i have'nt fished tourneys yet but will someday.i don't think i'll mind being in the back then either.the boater does do a lot for the non-boater by bringing them,so once again thanks guys!!!

__________________
chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 AM:

Re: Non-boaters, tourney's and random thoughts...

quote:

Originally posted by OnceBitten
I like fishing with them, and they enjoy fishing with me.

Now you're pushin' it, Fred...

Seriously, though. A day on the "Traveler" is a day well spent. Some of the most consistent fishing days I've had have been on that boat in your company. Just ask Meg!

Thanks for the great and oft humorous times, and Happy Holidays, buddy.

Tight Lines...

P.S. Can't wait to see your boat again!

__________________

"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing in WNY - A Personal View
> email - RobJinWNY@hotmail.com

Posted by MikeH on 2002 PM:

I love having guys on my boat.........never a big deal to me.
The friendships made,all the laughing and ESPECIALLY the
learning from those more experienced.
I was a long time saltwater fisherman. This was the first year I really attempted freshwater. I came to this board and digested everything I could from the posts. I then asked if anyone wanted to fish Whaley Lake,where I keep my boat.
The response to that question opened up a new world for me.
I got a chance to meet and go fishing with John G.,Woody,Gregg and Vic. I also met dodgeguy(who will do a lot of fishing with me next year) and Pete......a great bunch of guys.
I also got to see Woody pull in that lunker at Whaley,as well as go for an early swim(lol). To me,the more the merrier.

Posted by phil colarusso on 2003 PM:

Thanks Guys

Thank you. I have been fishing tournaments for about eleven years as a boater,and its tough some times i`ll jump in the truck drive twentey hours hit the motel and feel like I am going to fall over,and wake up two days later. But you cant You still have to get the boat readey,plug the chargers in check the oil. then pull out the rods get all the kinks taken care of. Go to dinner,set the alarm.then hit the launch pray everything holds together for the week or weekend. then do it all over for five more days. But as soon as a non boater catches his first fish of the day, it makes it all worth it.

__________________
Phil colarusso

Posted by jofish on 2003 PM:

If anyone who is a non-boater and NOT thankful when they are on someone's boat is foolish. Let's open with that. That's like being a GUEST in someone's house. So same rules Should apply. Sometimes things do degrade from there. like poeple Yelling at people like they were an object. No, not because they were doing stupid or dangerious or anything like that, but Some people act like They "ARE THE kING OF THEIR CASTLES". ok Norton.
Now most if not all Boaters are very giving types of people as fishmen we mostly are, but there are exceptions to the rule and MAYBE that's what is being spoken about here. There is no doubt that there is conciderable costs in boat ownership. Both in time and money and myself, for one, am thankful that people are willing to share that with me. So I in turn am a grateful guest.

Posted by Charlie on 2003 PM:

Hi Fred,
Nice post.

I took a "back seat" this year in the Bassmasters Invitationals because I could not get the time to practice and did not want to drag someone around who paid good money to fish and not know what the fish were doing!

Fished with some great "pro" partners, some of whom I knew personally and it was an experience being in the back after a few years of "running the show".
I did get "back ended" by one very famous fisherman, when he realised I could catch fish from his location! Other than that, it gave me great insight and while I have always had a respect for my partners needs during a tourny, it has "renewed" my efforts and resolve to ensure I continue to try and make the experience a memorable one.

Fred, if you would ever like to fish with me when NYBASS have a get together, I would consider it a privilage.
Tight Lines!
Charlie

__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler, Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
Occasional Tournament Director!
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by Scott C on 2003 AM:

Great post Fred.

I just started fishing TX's last season and I had my doubts if it was going to be for me or not. I love to compete but I didnt know if I wanted to introduce competition into my fishing. I too fish primarily to relax and enjoy nature in and around water.
Our club's TX's are different from what you are referring to as they are just club TX's and are fished from small boats electric only. Less stressful than a big money TX for sure. We all pitch in to help each other and genuinly enjoy fishing with each other. We have made it that way intentionally. But we all do enjoy the friendly competition without a doubt. Its healthy socially.
Always though....I make sure I can save some days or evenings after work just to be alone and fish or relax in my kayak and really enjoy the nature part. Chances are I wouldnt fish in a club or compete in TX's if this was the only time I had to fish. So far I have balanced this and it works for me. Besides...I met alot of good people this way and just for that I am thankful.
As far as boaters and non boaters..........I owned a boat for a number of years (in the salt) and really enjoyed having guests. Getting to the boat early and having all the things you mentioned in check, including all the bait was for me part of the enjoyment. In fact I would acknowledge that a day with guests means that I will be doing much less fishing than I normally would and dedicate my time trying to put them on fish, baiting hooks, untangling knots, etc. Many of my guests werent experienced fishermen and I wanted them to get as much enjoyment from a day on the water as possible. To me this was just as pleasurable as catching fish myself. So when I am on someone elses boat, whether a big bass boat, an electric john boat, or my fathers 29 footer I so appreciate all the boater has done and will do after we are done just to get us out on the water to wet a line......

thanks to all I have riden with this year......you all made the experience enjoyable !

Bernie, Kenny C , Robbie, Barry, Mike D, Frank with Tony's boat, JPBASS, Noel, Bill (ganggreen), Meg and Fred for letting us use your rig while you were ill.
And Dad, even though he will never see this.

and to those I havent riden with yet.......I am a gracious guest !

SC

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by Woody on 2003 AM:

Scotty

"Our club's TX's are different from what you are referring to as they are just club TX's and are fished from small boats electric only. Less stressful than a big money TX for sure. We all pitch in to help each other and genuinly enjoy fishing with each other. We have made it that way intentionally. But we all do enjoy the friendly competition without a doubt. Its healthy socially. "

Sounds like the club I am associated with...With the exception of Electric only.( I understand the waters you fish are smaller in nature.)
I think if you attended other Club's meetings or took a poll.....The MAJORITY of "Bigger" clubs feel the same way.
I know I wouldn't have joined a club to fish with a bunch of @ss#oles.... under ANY circumstances.
Hope all is well
Woody

Posted by Scott C on 2003 AM:

Woody,

I know there are alot of clubs out there that feel the same way.....thats the way it should be. IMO I bet that the big open type TX's can be a nightmare if you want to really enjoy the natural qualities associated with fishing.

Then its ALL about competition. Not my thing when fishing is concerned. Different strokes.......

SC

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by Woody on 2003 AM:

Scotty

Understood.....

Totally Agree

See you in the Spring
Woody

Posted by Scott C on 2003 AM:

Hopefully you make it to the NYBASS U in Feb. Last time we "met" at Maho I really didnt get a chance to meet you.

SC

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by quantumman29 on 2003 PM:

whats mine is yours...........

while i actually do try to pre fish most of my tournaments,the closer waters i normally dont pre fish,i put in at least 2 full days of pre fishing,and while its safe to say most "non-boaters" DO NOT prefish,

its my obligation as a boater to see to it during my pre fishing that not only do i locate fish for myself,i actually try to locate enough fish for two or more partners,if its a 2 day event,that means i need enough fish for 3 guys,if its a 3 day event,i need enough fish for 4 guys, not only do i locate the fish,i share with my non boater the exact way i have been catching them,

whether or not he/she actually uses my techniques is solely up to them, but once your a non boater in my boat,whats mine is yours!!!

i often times go out of my way to see to it that the non boater catches fish,many times,my partner out fishes me,i always net my partners fish for him/her, and i ALWAYS share every bit of water,

many guys know me and hope to draw me as a partner,i can honestly say there hasnt been more then 3 tournaments where my partners didnt catch at least 1 fish!!

im also very easy to get along with and normally before the blast off even takes place,my partner is already quite comfortible with me, i always have extra drinks,food,ciggs,rain gear,cell phones,medical supplies etc. on board.......

my saying is this: 4 eyes are better then 2,
2 people trying to catch fish is better then 1,

1st and 2nd place is always better then last and next to last!!!!

work together,get along,become a unit together,in the long run,you will both suceed or fail as one!!!!

quantumman

Posted by jofish on 2003 AM:

Your approach is what we mostly see and respect Hats off to you!!!

Joe

Posted by bink on 2003 PM:

Q29, In my club the Non boaters prefish almost as much as the Boater and as a non boater i dont want you finding enough fish for me I disagree that is your "obligation"to find fish for your upcoming partner let him/her find thier own fish either prefishing with you or someone else. I know if you made the statement about finding fish for the nonboater in my club they would ALL be offended.

__________________
I am the Mighty Blue Crawfish!

Posted by yar on 2003 AM:

bink, let me get this right! the nonboaters in your club would be offended(mad, upset, ect.), if Q29 or any other boater look for fish for both of you during there prefishing for the next TX??? so that means all of the nonboaters in your club won't fish a boaters spot cause he found the fish and that offends them!!

if i had Q29 as a partner i would be happy he found a lot of fish for both of us. it would suck to go out and not get a fish!! and if i were able to prefish and finds some spots then that makes it better. cause if his spots don't pay off then we have some backup plans!!!

please i'm still trying to understand your post???? please give us a explanation on this!!

Posted by bink on 2003 PM:

No Yar I might have miss stateted my point . You dont have to go looking for spots for your Nonboater/Coangler,you are looking for spots for yourself And the partner not forhim/her. The non boaters in my club take pride in finding thier own fish if they own a boat or not. If I took you fishing Yar would you want me taking you to my spots that I found for you wouldnt you be offended if I said " Oh dont worry Yar I found some spots for you". In a team format that is OK but in a draw T he/she needs his own spots. or how about after the T that You and I won,I found all the fish and put us in the right places trust me that crap comes up in dock talk. what if i dont like the spots that my partner has found do to style(flippin/Crigging Etc) what happens than, I have spots i feel are better but he like these spots he found for Us. This is why I feel Prefishing is so important.

__________________
I am the Mighty Blue Crawfish!

Posted by JPBass on 2003 PM:

Gotta admit Bink, you got me a little confused there too.

As a boater if my partner can put me on fish I'd be very thankful. And I have yet to of brought someone to a good spot and find them "offended".

And as far as style, what better time to learn a new one if your partner's catching fish??

Who's spots are better can sometimes lead to conflict. I for one am easily swayed after catching a few good fish.

As for "dock talk".....Wouldn't bother me a bit.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by bink on 2003 PM:

How's this As a non boater I can find my own fish and all non boaters except the very inexperianced should be able to find his or hers own spots, I'm not saying that I dont want to go to your spots you found just dont say you had to go out and get spots for your Nonboater. I can't believe all the other non boater here Do Not Prefish and it's not that you brought me to a spot to catch fish it's that you say you had to go find fish for ME not for Us. As for style IMHO the worst time to learn it is under the time limit of a tournament. No you will never find me offended if you took me too a good spot and we are catching fish untill you say but if you told me you found these fish FOR me. I am a non boater and i can find our own fish and i pre fish every T either with my partner or I call around and see if another guy in my club wants to go out. Maybe he is the ultimate partner if he goes out and finds enough fish for for up too 4 fisherman. I must be the only CoAngler who likes to Prefish and prides himself on finding fish(either with partners help or not).

__________________
I am the Mighty Blue Crawfish!

Posted by Woody on 2003 AM:

Bink

If I may, was referring to the wordage involved.
I happen to agree with the message....
I currently fish with the club as a non-boater and after we determine at the prior meeting who is partnered up.......I make every attempt to Prefish with my partner OR SOMEONE else.
It really doesn't matter who but if a particular pattern or location is not working....Part of MY responsibility is to have a concrete plan B. In theory half the day is mine and the earn while you learn doesn't translate in "T" fishing.
My .02
Woody

Posted by JPBass on 2003 AM:

Ok, Point well taken. But not ALL non-boaters (or boaters for that matter) have your admirable attitude. A lot of non-boaters jump on the boat in hopes that their partner for the day has a good plan.

In a partner's draw tournament, where you don't know who your partner is until the day before, I'd far rather be coupled with someone sharing your train of thought, that can contribute to the days events....... But that's not always the case.

As a matter of fact it's not an uncommon practice for boaters who, after a poor day of practice, will register as a non-boater in hopes of drawing a partner with a better plan.

I also don't believe Qunatumman was referring to club events but more likely larger tournaments where you don't know who you're gonna get.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by Woody on 2003 PM:

I can only hope that when I come into an event as a boater....My nonboater has ALSO done his homework....or at least made an attempt.
I am speaking of course of a NonPartner situation. I can't see why you would bother being in an event without trying to learn the waters you are fishing at the CLUB level.
Just MY thoughts,
Woody

Posted by JPBass on 2003 PM:

Well you can hope Woody..... But drawing partners is like a box of chocolates........You never know what you're gonna get!

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by yar on 2003 PM:

BINK, myself being a nonboater for 4yrs in my club. i had to hope the boater had a great plan! i had no boat so i could not prefish. so when the boater comes and tells me he has found a spot or two with enough bass for both of us i was happy.

now being a boater i don't worry if my noboater partner has prefished or not. if he did even better. when i prefish i look for spots that holds enough bass that we can both can catch limits on. i don't want to hit a spot and fight for the fish that's there.

i don't think it's about saying the boater found fish for his nonboater partner, but FOUND FISH FOR THE BOAT! is that a better way of saying it bink. i don't think boaters say the FOUND fish for there partners, but FOUND enough fish for the boat at his spots!!

JP, nice choice of words. CHOCOLATES!! have to use that one at my next club meeting. classic!!

Posted by bink on 2003 PM:

How's this Yar,"For Us". Also I have no boat but manage to prefish every T of course it may not always be with my partner but I never have a problem finding a boat to ride on.

__________________
I am the Mighty Blue Crawfish!

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:

Phil, do you do tournies on Winnie? JOHN G

Posted by bink on 2003 AM:

Yes John I have. it is a must for most NH clubs and of course because of it's size that is one of the places large Groups like BASS have thier opens. In the past I have only fished one of those big T's because quite frankly they seemed out of my league(high dollar&Compitition)but I am doing two this year. It is a great lake with tons and tons of great fish at last years Spring open the winning weight was 18.29lb for a 4 fish limit and paid out $1500.00 for first place.

__________________
I am the Mighty Blue Crawfish!