Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Early Morning Tourney Tactics on Mahopac in later Fall.....

inspired by Scul's Halloween Classic post, I have a question for you guys that fish tournies at maho at this time of the year. Now, even though I never fish early mornings at Maho, rather , starting at the 9 am ramp opening time, nevertheless, if it was summertime and I started early, I would at least have several ideas, plenty of shallow flats on that lake to throw topwater, hell, you could even just start with the first shoreline on the right and throw topwater up all along it.....however, if I had to start at 6 am now, in this colder water period, I would be lost.

I assume, that most of the time, smallies would be your target with early morning right now...not that LM couldn't be biting very early now, but I would guess that it would be more of a hit or miss thing, and that targeting smallies would make more sense.

Okay, NOW where to start? HMMMMmmmmm.....a real tough one, and I beat my brains out trying to come up with something..... I don't really think that they would be up very shallow, but perhaps they would APPROACH the shallows? maybe in 10 to 15 feet of water off some of the rocky points of the Islands?

Or maybe they would still be deep, but instead of out roaming after schools of baitfish, maybe positioned over certain areas, and at a certain depth, not necessarily that shallow, but as I said, maybe more concentrated?

Again, having never done that , and especially at this particular time of the year, I would be hard pressed to come up with a good starting point.....

How about some feedback on this from guys who have fished early on at this time of the year over there? Thanks....

JOHN G

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Posted by mjdel17 on 2002 AM:

Guess I will start things off.

One of the things I got from this post was the fact that starting "spots" were refered to rather than the actual patterns the fish may be on. I said this in another post and I will say it again. The time of day does not come into the equasion all that often. Possibly if I were targeting a shallow water pattern this may come into play, but it is more about the structure than location.

Mahopac has fished very differently this year than in the past and many of the areas we patterned fish in the past just did not produce this year. I am a believer that lakes have certain cycles they go through, one year the shallow bite is on and another the deeper patterns dominate. The same holds true for techniques. Such was the case for topwater this year, there just was not a great topwater bite this year.

So, I quess when you ask the question of where I would go in the morning at Mahopac or any other lake I am not sure I could give a realistic answer based upon all of the unknowns. These unknown questions are the ones I ask myself whenever preparing to go fish a major tournament such as water temp, seasonal pattern, time of year, type of lake, past and future weather conditions etc. From this information you can make an educated assumption of where to go locate fish and what technique to catch them on.

Sorry for going this route, probably opened up a whole new topic.

Mikeyd

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Not really Mike, you made a valid point, even if someone had certain "patterns" that they thought held up nice early morning in the late fall at Maho, because the fishing has been so different there this year, they may not be all that useful

If you look around at several of the posts made in the last week from some of the upstate waters: the one on Oneida, the ones from Conesus and several others, boy, smallie fishing is through the roof right now at those other places.....why then is Maho so doggone finnicky and hard right now? Or is the best fishing there yet to come this season, what with the unusual water temps , however, that is changing big time with all of these cold nights we are getting now....

I would like to still get out there on Maho another couple of times this season, as I would love see a similar smallie bonanza, if possible, as has been found at these other waters...... JOHN G

Posted by jofish on 2002 AM:

Well here goes I was out on Maho last Saturday in a open tx 10 boats ice and snow flurries. I should have thought something was strange when on rt.6 they were a salting. I expecting some guy in a red suit to come bouncing down the road. When I got to the launch I saw all these guys I knew but didn't reconize them without sandles and shorts. It looked like we should have brought our bows, who had fur hats, camo clothing you have it. It was great everybody pointing and laughing at each other. The biggest hoot was after careful consideration and to put it mildly snooping around, I thought that blade baits would be the ticket. So it was go deep young man, not so young. This was because bait fish. Spinner baits with Big blades. spoons etc. But I wanted to cover shallow also a Buzz Bait. Well to see and hear them laugh at a Big pike\ Muskie spinner bait and a buzz bait. I think we could have launched just on hoot power alone. When we got to our spot the sun just over the trees, I heaved this 88 I thought my arm when go with it, my partner was polite and wished me well. I let the bait fall and started to retrive slowly, then the thud, I thought I was stuck on a tree or something. Then the rod started to thump. Of course I said 'got um" My partner said you kidding. Get the net. A beautiful baby 3.58 lb smallie, of course with red eyes. Then I said what the heck lets try the buzz bait, I was really pushing it at that point. I tossed over some rock cover by an island, but no go. My partner took a nice 3lb smallie on a tube in the same spot he in about 10 ft. of water me in 25 ft. Then it was cranks doing the rest of the damage. Mostly shallow. But that was it, ended with 10.68 .18 lbs took it by DAN MORGAN state team member. He finished second week before with 14.50 second to Pat X. Second place was taken by Gary Menchen and his Son with 14.15 Lunker was 3.83 we just missed. And no Dan my Smallie was not on a sucide mission. Gary 's fish were taken deep on blade baits. Dan'n fish came 2 on pig&jig 2 on a tube and 2 on a crank bait. Lots of fish on cranks. The ending weights may not be exact but that's how it played out. A good time had by all, water temp 50. Thrid place was Scott Fairchild not sure of weight may have been 12. So John fish were shallow and deep.

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

thank you Joe for an EXCELLENT report!!!! JOHNG

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

John,

In this case where the same team has won 2 years in a row on deep patterns the competing anglers must decide to fish shallow or deep. Since the likely hood of beating the team fishing a deep pattern when the fish are really on a deep bite would be almost zero the rest of the field is almost forced to fish shallow.

If most teams are fishing shallow it forces them to share water and if there is no shallow bite past the first couple hours of light the deep water team has a big advantage as we've seen the past 2 years. Even if there is just a mediocre deep bite since all the other teams are sharing water they probably still have the advantage.

I would say it would almost take a team effort to beat Pat and Mike at Maho under the conditions we've had this year.

Paul

Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:

a perceived advantage......

Paul

I would have to disagree with some of your post. Pat and Mike were by no means alone in fishing the depths during the tournament. In fact, MOST of the teams attempted to find a deep water bite, but failed.

There were only 6 teams that I am aware of that fished a shallow pattern. Four of those teams were ON the bank and Two of those were fishing 6 to 8 feet of water.

The results showed that only Pat & Mike were successful fishing the deep water pattern, while teams 2 through 7 were ALL fishing a shallow water pattern.

One point I do agree with is that the shallow water fishermen were shareing their water. All those fishing that pattern were fishing much the same water. Pat & Mike did not suffer from that problem.

I will agree that when the fish are deep, Pat & Mike are difficult to beat. Few teams if any are better at performing that magic than the X-man and Chester....lol

However, I am sure Mike will agree, the deep bite wasnt REALLY on during the tournament. They had to work hard for their quality fish. The shallow water bite WAS on, and usually at this time of year (immediately after turnover), the better fish are in less than a foot of water. This lasts for a few weeks, before they begin to bunch up and move off the shoreline.

Last year Mike & Pat won this event by 12 ounces. This year they won by 16 ozs....that is not, in my opinion, an overwellming endorsement that the deep water bite was better than the shallow water bite. On Lake Mahopac, with the exception of 9 am to 12 noon, the deepwater bite and the shallow water bite are almost identical throughout the day (fish activity)

I believed that I had a much better chance of winning, along with a few other teams, than Pat and Mike did. It just didnt work out that way.

"Live shallow or die" ...lol

Scul.

Hey Paul, give me a shout when your going to be in my neck of the woods on a Tuesday. Lets do lunch.

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

Scull,

I don't see much difference in what we wrote. I was more thinking in terms of what to do next year should we face the same conditions than a dissection of the this years tx. I realize that the deep bite was not "on", but if it was I really think they would have really spanked the field.

At this time of year I define anything less than 12' as shallow. Yes, I would have to agree that I personally would have fished shallow and would have been confident in doing so as well.

Paul

Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:

still will fish shallow

Paul,

I wouldnt change a thing. Next year I will target the shallow water fish as well . The results may be the same, lol, but I am confident in my approach on Lake Mahopac to feel that I am going to win.

I firmly believe the bigger fish are shallow, as witnessed by 5 of the last 6 lunkers weighed-in at the Halloween Classic have shown.

If the tournament was mid-November, I would deffinitley consider fishing the deep water. However, not the last week in October.

Three years ago, Pat and I won this tournament with 19 pounds 6 ounces. Three of these fish came in less than 8 feet of water and two came in 18 feet of water.

Scul

Posted by mjdel17 on 2002 PM:

Paul,

I think one of the things you have to realize is that Pat and I did not chose to fish deep just because it was the end of October, we always fish deep water patterns at Mahopac whether it is July or November. Pat nor I have not seriously fished shallower than 15 feet for a number of years now.

I think you will always find a shallow and deep water pattern existing at the same times. For sure the deep water pattern has changed some over the last year and as Scul said and I agree was not on. There were many people fishing deep during the tournament, but I am far more concerned with someone like Scul or Neal busting a 17lb plus bag than someone coming out deep and catching the same.

It just makes sense on a lake that small to find something no one else will find. All of the areas Pat and I fished had a very specific simularity to them. If you did not cast to that area you did not catch one.

Mikeyd

Posted by jofish on 2002 PM:

What Mike says has some truth to it the guys I know that fished deep did not produce fish, except for one team and I have not had a chance to speak with them. They found them so did I but I guess there is that one piece of cover, rise , hump, contour, that they work on, don't know what it is? I saw thing on Champlain I fished with a federation guy who was leading the state. He looked for that one piece of cover or weed that he wanted to work on. The weed within the weeds. We have done it before, but in this case it's something else. Maybe in time or by luck when you fish an area enough you find it and it works, then you have the edege. In their case they targeted a certain contour patteren what have you, and they have an edege, and from what I understand Not all their fish came deep, if I am correct? The point is they won and as Skull said by a pound, and that by guys who fished shallow. Yes it seemed that the shallow bite did dry up say after 9 or so, and yes we did get some shorts going deep but not enough to make work. What I can say is the second team from 10\31 produce 18 lbs a week later on a shallow bite and the deep guys got 15. So go figure.

Joe

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

Guys-

I'd be fishing shallow(<12') and with great faith in the potential of having a successful day. Hope for 5 bites and hope they're the right bites!

Paul