Posted by Seth V on 2002 AM:

What would you have done?

Ok, I want some help 2nd guessing myself and analyzing my failure last night on the Tuesday Night Conesus Open.

Prefishing: I did not have a chance to prefish for this event, but was on the lake for the STBM club T on Saturday. I found a good concentration of fish off the deep weed lines, and landed about 14lb in about an hour.

The Tournament: These tournaments don't give you much of a chance to make mistakes. In 3 hours you just don't have time to make too many bad decisions. I started out right where I found fish on Saturday.

Here is how it went:
6:00 - Blast off
6:15 - First keeper, 2 1/2 lb
7:00 - No fish since first keeper, changed locations.
7:10 - 12" keeper
7:45 - No more fish, went back to first spot & tried shallower and deeper in same location. Caught several short fish shallow.
8:00 - Nothing, went to new location. Lost a pig in the weeds. Boated an 11" fish.
8:20 - Nothing, went to new location
8:30 - Returned to first location, 2 1/2 lb keeper
9:00 - Weigh-in

My question is: What should I have done? I felt that my initial spot had really slowed, but that is where the 2 best fish of the night ended up comming from. Should I have persisted there? I also changed it up a bit, I was on a carolina rig pattern, but also threw jerkbaits for a while, jigs, and senkos. The quality fish both came on carolina rig.

Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:

would have gone shallow

Seth

Just my humble opinion, but at this time of year and at that time of the day, I would have gone shallow. In addition I would have gone up tight. If there had been a lot of sun during the day I would have fished docks (if any) and or shaded areas, ie overhanging trees, moored boats. Finess baits are outstanding for this approcah.

As a rule of thumb, if I catch a short in an area I intend to fish, I am out of there, except when I am fishing shallow. Experience has shown me (for the most part) that when small fish are feeding in the weeds, usually the big ones are not. Even though you wound up catching 2 "choads" (2 1/2 pounders) out of your primary area, those litlle fellas would have run me off.

Scully

Posted by Dominic on 2002 AM:

I agree with Scully about the short fish. If they were all shorts, by all means look for fish that will keep. In a situation like your's, I would have stayed put. You were catching quality fish and you only had a short amount of time. I would have kept my lure in the water and not wandered around too much. There's a saying, Never leave them, to find them. Instead of wasting valuable time running you might have been able to put one or two more in the box. Just my 2 cents.

Dom

Posted by Paul at home on 2002 PM:

Stay or go that's always the choice. You had 6lbs w 3 fish in a couple hours, you just needed to boat the one you lost and cull the dink. I think you did well. Maybe get some power pro to throw in the thick weeds.

To me topwater is always worth at least a few minutes....sometimes it seems to wake them up. You'll be able to catch them later on something else even if they just show themselves.

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Seth, I agree that you still did well....but I have found that in early evening, the bite can be ravenous yet sporadic at the same time.....15 intense minutes, then a let up , then it comes again.... I assume your were jigging those deep weeds, did you try top water as suggested over the weeds and over the shallower weeds? Covers a lot of water, especially at that critical early evening bite..... JOHN G

__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one another"
---------------------------------
> email - DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
---------------------------------
Quote: "coming soon"
---------------------------------

Posted by Sea Jack on 2002 PM:

After some advice from NYBASS's own Jiggin' n' piggin', I spend very little time thinking about the past tourney. Once I get home, it's all about the next one. I know your situation is a little different, you are home in what, 5 mins. LOL

It's difficult to say what was right or wrong. If you would have found some active fish, then moving would have been the right decision. When things don't go the way you expect on the water(as it normally does) you may have to roll the dice. I wouldn't spend a lot of time looking back though.

__________________
John Siejak

"It's not the fishin' that brings in the Sacajaweas!" - L. T. Smash

To email me: Bassin303@aol.com

Another WNY Bass Site

Posted by Todd Miller on 2002 PM:

Never leave a concentration of fish to find others this is just my opinion and by holding myself to this i have either been a hero or zeroed LOL..

Todd Miller

__________________
Snoozers Baits "imagination is your only limitation" for naturally scented soft plastics. your way!!

Posted by yar on 2002 PM:

first off, 6+lbs is great in a 3hr tx. one thing i learned about bass fishing is largemouth stay together in size. if you catch a 2lb+ there are going to be other that size or bigger. but smallmouth roam together in all sizes. i would of stayed in the first spot and just worked it . in a 3hr tx you don't have time to run alover the lake. don't think about anymore just get ready for the next one .

Posted by Seth V on 2002 AM:

Thanks guys....

I know I should not second-guess myself, but I always like to look back on what I did, so I can try not to make the same mistake twice.

All of the fish we found shallow when we briefly targeted them were short. I do think I could have found 5 "squeakers", but that really would not help. It took 10lb to make $$, and 14lb to win. Quite impressive for a 3 hour T.

I think I should have stayed put, but the "grass is always greener....". Luckily all that running does not take long as Conesus is fairly small, so I only spent 6-8 minutes (8 or 9 miles) total all night running the boat.

I did not try any topwater, most of the time was spent with carolina rigs and jigs...

Seth V

Posted by Charlie on 2002 PM:

Couple of things here!
RULES:

1. If you "catch" fish in great quantity from a single location during practice, your doing something WRONG!... Why would you put the hurt on 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or more fish in one area? When I find quality fish in practice, the hooks come off and I "play with them" to see if it was a one off or there is a concentration of fish. Once two or three have given me a solid indication of their presence I am OUT OF THERE!. As Ray points out, if you catch one good fish and 6 small ones, get the heck out and find something else.

2.On tournament day, those fish "should" still be there or close by. If they turn on and off and on again, you may need to make some subtle adjustments to your presentation.

3. NEVER leave fish.

4. Always have a backup spot.

5. NEVER leave fish.

6. Oh and don't forget ............NEVER leave fish!

Tight Lines!

Charlie

__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler, Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:

A seasonal thing

Usually this time of year I can expect the fish (in your local) to be in all phases of the spawn. I am unfamiliar with Conesus, but will make an assumption that quite a few large fish were shallow.

Its been my observation over the years that the last moon in June in the Northeast is the last spawn for the year with the possible exception on northern Vermont, NH and Maine.

The weedebed patern you had established would not have been my first choice. The fish you were catching were most likely post-spawn fish and that in itself would have meant I was targeting fish that were going to weigh less than spawning fish or pre-spawn fish. Even if these fish had spawned in early June it would have been difficult at best to have replaced lost body fat in so short a period of time.

With the full moon this past weekend, it is hard to believe that the largest fish available were not shallow on beds or about ready to go on beds....the moon phase usually lasts about 6 to 7 days. Again, I am not familiar with Conesus, but I do know that Seneca, Keuka and Cayuga all had some largemouth on beds this past week end. Just a few rambling thoughts from my perspective.

I know you were faced with a short time in which to catch your fish and that makes finding fish more difficult. I would have to agree with a few others who weighed in here and say that if you were confident with your spot....dont leave. Fish the hell out of it. Keeping your line in the water is critical when your up against the clock.

Scully

Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:

Scully, the spawn is pretty much over at Conesus. I have not seen a bass on the bed there in a couple weeks now. There might be a straggler or two, but for the most part, they are done.

Seth, I went to the spot I caught my 10+ pounds on Saturday, and caught two bass less than 8 inches there, so I went to a back up location. I was there for 45 minutes or so before they "turned on". The action was furious for about 7 or 8 minutes, then it turned right back off. Only problem, I only landed one of the fish I had on, lost one over 3 that I saw, and lost a couple more that felt exactly the same. These fish were in 4 to 6 feet in straight milfoil, with no other weeds mixed in.

The fishing in that spot was difficult at best. There was a large pleasure boat going in tight circles creating huge wakes for a jetskier to play on. That boat was only about a 100 yards from me, and I was bobbing up and down like a bobber ) This wave action could explain why these fish turned on briefly, but they turned back off while the waves were still rolling in.

I agree with the others, don't leave fish if you know they are there. They may have moved slightly, either deeper or shallow, or have gone up or down in the water column. I have always been told, they are either deep or shallow or somewhere in between

I am always second guessing myself this time of year. I never do especially well in June or July, and I can't wait for August and September!! (or maybe even November and December, but let's not rush things)

__________________
Bassman's Thread of the Web - A Look at WNY's Bass Fishing

- Protection and organization of your rods

"Perhaps God gave the answers, to those with nothing to say" - Savatage

Posted by Seth V on 2002 AM:

Good info guys!

Noel is correct, I think the spawn is pretty much over. In the last week, I have seen rockbass and catfish on the beds, nothing else. I know I could have had a quick limit up shallow, but 5 12" fish are not good for much, and like was stated above, when the fish are all running small, get outa there!

Charlie, thanks for your response. I think you hit it right on. My question then becomes....what consitutes "leaving fish"? Remember, I fished my "#1" spot for an hour, with 1 bite. I guess now in retrospect, I can see that was the best thing I had going, but I thought it had DIED on me.....I guess that delema is what keeps us comming back!

Seth V

Posted by Charlie on 2002 AM:

Hi Seth!

Glad I could help.

If you read the posting under tournament fishing I had a similar situation at the FOXWOODS Champlain tournament. I had fish against a rock wall and could catch them with ease. What I missed, but thankfully my partner picked up, was that the fish had moved about 30 feet to a large adjacent weedbed where he proceeded to catch some quality fish (exactly the kind I had found in practice). What this is telling me is that the fish were not far from their "home". Largemouth bass especially are notorious for spending their entire life in an area the size of half a football field, when they could travel hundreds of miles in any direction. Smallmouth on the other hand have been known to roam many, many miles from their place of birth. Go figure!

Each time I go out I learn. If I ever stop learning, one of two things has happened: 1/ I am dead. or 2/ have lost the ability to hold a fishing pole in my hands...I thank God everyday for the gift of fish and fishing!

Tight Lines!

Charlie

__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler, Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by wnybassman on 2002 AM:

OK, so let's go the next step here.

Say you have several spots on a lake that you know hold quality fish, and those fish are in these areas time after time, year after year.

You go to the best spot (or area) in a tournament. The spot has everything; deep and shallow weeds, docks or other shorline cover, spawning flats close by and quick deep water access, all in a relatively small area.

During the tournament, you catch nothing (or very little) using all the usual presentations. Do you fire up and go to another area after a couple hours, and do the same usual presentations there, or do you stick it out in the first area amd really fine tune the presentation of the day with fish you know are somewhere in the area? or simply wait for those fish to turn on, and let them start telling you what they want.

Chances are, if your presentations are not working in that area, what's to say they are working anywhere else. And if they do work elsewhere, was it a location thing, or just a matter of timing. Maybe the better quality fish in area 1 also turned on at that time to.

....And people wonder why I come home mentally and physically drained after a day of fishing!!!

Posted by Seth V on 2002 PM:

Now we are gettin' deep!

Well, most of my natural lake experience is limited to the mid-west, Indiana and Michigan. All I know so far about NY fish is that they are really goofy.

Assuming the fish do not cooperate on my first spot of the T, I would usually start the "milk run" of several spots that I had confidence in. The thing that weirds me out is how much the "same" a lake like conesus is. I just don't see a huge variety of structure. One of my favorite Michian lakes, Lobdell (just N of Detroit) is a classic example of a "milk run" lake. Lets say that I was on a pattern similar to here, I would start on a nice break line, 8-12' of water. If that produced nothing, I would run to either shallower wood, deeper rocks or shallower weeds. If I did not find them in 1 of these different condidions, it was a very rare day. Once I found the fish, I could then pattern them through the entire lake. You know, fish every stump in 4' of water, for example. Here in NY I struggle with that. This partly because I don't know the water, but lets see, I have 1. Deep weeds 2. Shallow weeds 3. Docks (& I hate docks....)

Also, the "milk run" usually does not take much time, 10min in spot and then hammer down...

How often do you find that just changing it up slightly in a "good" location that has gone cold has helped? I don't just like randomly marching down a breakline...I would much rather fish a spot with a specific target or structure to hold fish.

Now ya made me think Noel....

Seth V

Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:

a rule of thumb

Given the preference, I would fish shallow all year round. There are always fish shallow, Winter Spring, Summer and Fall. That said, I do not find it difficult to fish in 8 to 12, or 20 plus for that matter. You do what you have to do. The most predictable and by far the easiest fish to catch in a system are shallow fish, unquestionably.

In most all the lakes I frequent I begin shallow. If I have not had a bite, or the action is slow, I will move out and try a SPECIFIC spot or two in 8 to 12. Should the results remain the same, I go to the deep water ledges, rock piles and weed humps. Even though I have made these moves, I never loose sight of those shallow fish. Just because they didnt bite in the morning, doesnt mean they wont be all over the bait in the afternoon. Come noon, I am back on the bank. Big fish live in 6"inches of water. In most of the tournaments down my way, the majority of the big fish are taken shallow. Big fish are solitary, especially after the spawn. For the most part you wont find them on deep weed edges, or bueried up in a weed bed. They dont want to chase down bait, they are too big and old for that. In the weeds there are too many places for the bait to hide and escape. Where is the one spot that the bait will always come to them, where its easy and accesible....under docks.

Seth, I read where you hate dock fishing. Is there a particular reason why? I have not been to a lake that has docks that wont yield some quality fish year round, especially in the summer when the sun positions the fish under them. I salivate when I see a lake full of docks. Remember, some docks are better than others, and you need to find the ones that produce consistantly and make a milk run of these. There is one lake I fish that in the fall, (October) I can run 5 docks and have the limit in the boat in a half and hour. Works almost every time. These docks are on the edge of deep water and are almost impossible to get your bait under....but you can if you try hard enough.

There is another lake I fish that has a dock my friends and I call the "limit dock". During the summer monhs, you can catch a limit out from under it, you just have to keep going back to it. This holds true on a number of different bodies of water. If you catch a fish off a particular dock in the morning, why not hit it again in the afternoon? Cant tell you how many times that's worked.

If you like run and gunning, the docks are the deal...in my oppinion. From what some of my friends tell me I would love Conesus and Silver Lake and Waneeta/Lamoka. Maybe next year I can get out that way and hook up with GANGREEN. He has invited me to Keuka and Seneca and I just havent been able to get there.

Scully