Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
The Erie Drag.......
Some interesting thoughts
and a few questions.
I have had good success with this technique (Dragging tubes or grubs) on both Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. However, I have not had ANY success utilizing it on many
of the lakes I fish where I had felt/hoped the technique would lend itself well
to.
I have tried this technique in ALL seasons, on Lake Mahopac and Candlewood Lake and have tried it on Lake Winnipesaukee in the early summer with absolutley no results.
Mr Jig....how about Champlain, while I have fished there quite a bit, I have
not tried this technique.
John/NH...how about Winny? Is that a go to pattern out your way?
Anybody....Candlewood? Is there anyone but J.J. who can catch fish on that Lake...lol
I have noticed that the guys out in western NY seem to do well on other bodies
of water out their way. How about a heads up on thechniques that work for you
guys.
Scully
Posted by joe pido on 2002 AM:
Ray, check this months IF magazine
Infisherman Magazine has
a veeeery good article on duping smallies on soft plastics and jigs.....
joe
Posted by joe pido on 2002 AM:
..and to me, the Erie
Drag sounds more like a back of the boat technique, the guy up front picking
out the shallow structure while the guy in the back dragging along the tube in
the deeper depths...
joe
Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
not so Joe
Joe
With the "drag" you set yourself upwind of the structure and drift.
Both anglers are in the "strike zone" so to speak at all times. You
have to make an Erie trip.....just consider it part of
your fishing education...."ERIE-101" lol
Ray
Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:
How could I not have
a thought or two here?
There's no doubt that
"Erie draggin'" a tube comes into a special place all its own as the
water cools for the fall in the inland lakes of Western New York. The Finger Lakes offer up some fine Smallies from
depths of as little as 12 feet to deep down at 40 to 50 feet down, depending on
the "Finger" you choose. 
The inland Smallies which respond so well at this time of year are nearly impossible
to pattern during the warm summer months. This is mainly due to their
predominant move to deeper, open water, following the schools of pelagic
baitfish. Often, anglers trolling deepwater spoons and other baits for lake
trout and salmon get into Smallies as deep as 100 feet down that time of year,
mostly to their disdain.
The fall ushers these large, mystery fish back toward steep structure closer to
shore as they feed and prepare to winter down. When the water is falling
through the 50s and 40s, that is the time to be out on the Finger Lakes, dragging tubes for these fish,
which are surprisingly large, somtimes topping 5 pounds! 
Interestingly, with the 'drag, less is more. There is not much talent necessary
to accomplish this presentation, except to distinguish between the feel of your
tube bumping along a good bottom and an actual strike. Actually, that aspect of
dragging is huge, and is often the dividing line between those who find success
or frustration with it in waters where the technique is proven. My confidence
in it goes WAY UP if I can feel the tube rooting and bouncing along good
bottom.
From a Lake Erie tournament standpoint, there is no advantage to being in the
front of the boat, as the structure drifted over is often expansive, and, due
to variations in the line let out by each individual angler, the non-boater may
actually have a tube bouncing the bottom in front of the boater's tube. Often,
when drifting with the wind, the boat orients itself nicely so that the two
occupants will be dragging perpendicular to it. In a partners tournament,
there's no better way to 'carpet bomb' the bottom when doing the 'drag out
there.
Scul, I'm surprised that there is a lack of action with draggin' on the good Smallie
waters out your way this time of year. It seems to me that it should be working
for you, assuming the Smallies follow similar positioning behavior to the WNY
inland waters. You probably know this, but for others, find fairly a fairly
steep bottom adjacent to deep water and start your drag just off the deep weedline.
Make a pass or two. If no fish, then go progressively deeper, say 8 to 10 feet
at a time. Usually, when you find the fish, they will be very closely
associated with that particular depth - not much shallower or deeper, but
experimentation may be necessary to keep the bite going through the course of
the day. 
I can't wait to see if there is any response on your Champlain, Candy and Winni
inquiries. I'm glad to hear you have readily sampled Erie's great Smallies, and yes, they
will grab a tube in the summer days when doing so while inland just doesn't
produce.
Tight Lines...
__________________
"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing
in WNY - A Personal View
> email
- RobJinWNY@hotmail.com
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
a thorough insight
Rob
Wonderful post. Thanks for bringing out some of the finer points of this
productive technique. Rob it IS possible that I have not applied this technique
at the correct time in the fall. Usually when the water temps are in the mid to
low 40s, there are very few of us still on the water. Most marinas close their
ramps and many of the lakes in Connecticut
experience a draw down which makes launchig a boat out of the State ramps all
but impossible. This usually occurs around the middle of November.
I know in the spring I have had quite a bit of success on Erie, even when the water temepratures
were 43-45 degree (surface temps). I was shocked the first time I went there in
96, just after the opening of the "Trophy Season" and found fish in
25 to 30 feet of water, all too glad to accept my offerings despite the cold
water.
In the spring here its a hair jig & jerkbait. I have tried the
"drag" each year, but have never had any luck. Next year I am going
to see if I can talk Pat X in to joining me up your way in the late fall.
I hope to hear some other points here as well. Nice job Rob.
Scul
Posted by Paul at home on 2002 PM:
Scull-
BVS and I have been talking about making a run up next spring.
Paul
Posted by Gregg on 2002 PM:
Rob what would you say is
the composition of the bottom in the areas that produce best for this
technique? Are you stirring up a lot of dirt? Do you get caught up often?
Mahopac is a very rocky bottom pretty hard to drag a tube for long with out
getting caught up, I've tried
__________________
Gregg
Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:
Ray,
Our last tourney at Candy was won with the "Erie drag"..... Well sort of..... One of our members
(Mark) and his partner (this was one of our partners tourneys) had the
misfortune of some dead batteries.
They headed back to Latin's where the wiegh-in was to be held when they spotted
a bikini clad member of the opposite sex on one of the docks.
While enjoying the scenery I guess they figured that was as good a spot as any
to finish out the day and while drifting around with some tubes dangeling off
the side landed three nice fish. Rounded out their limit and won the
tourney!!.... Not a bad pattern if you think about it.
__________________
http://www.renegadebassmasters.com
Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:
If you have smallmouth,
and rock/cobble/gravel bottom, and water, you should be able to catch them on
the drag sometime throughout the year. As my friend Mr. Barth always said,
"No red blooded Americam smallmouth can resist it!"
Areas I have caught smallies by dragging:
Lake Erie
Lake Ontario
Upper and Lower Niagara River
Silver Lake
Nearly every Finger Lake I have fished
St. Lawrence River
Oneida Lake
Black Lake
Mohawk River
Lake George
Lake Champlain (both south and north
ends)
Hudson River
Seems to work everywhere I've been
Gregg, any hard bottom will do. Do I get snagged?.....hmmmmm....ask Seth V. He
watched me tie on at least 40 tubes one day last fall durung a tx due to
snagging. I had an awful time snagging on Erie this spring as well, because I upgraded to a 4/0 hook. Worth the
tradeoff though, as I increased my landing percentage.
__________________
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Look at WNY's Bass Fishing
- Protection
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"Perhaps God gave the answers, to those with nothing to say" -
Savatage
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
I wish I knew how....
Noel
The one place I want to catch fish utalizing that method is Candlewood Lake. When the "hot shot" locals see us attempting
the drag they laugh at us. The one angler who seems to win there all the time,
winter spring summer or fall (J.J. Zilakowski) claims the drag just doesnt work
there. Art Singer a Connecticut legend on Candlewood, rumored to
have won 200 tournaments there since 1973 also has no faith in that method.
Both of these guys are hair jig fanatics (Singer is semi-retired from
tournament fishing)
Pat X and I have tried in vain on Lake Mahopac to catch smallmouth utilizing
the drag and have worn the sombrero there when ever we attempted to . Nolan
Edwards, a close friend and I have fished Erie on numerous occasions. We knock the snot out of them on the
"drag" Last November he joined Pat X and I on Lake Mahopac......nada on the drag. This is a guy who lives on Lake Ontario (Fair Haven) and spends plenty of time as well on Cayuga,
Keuka, Seneca, Oneida et all and he was left shaking
his head...
Come on you Candlewood hot shots....weigh-in here, I know your out there
snooping...lol
And JP...Mark said it was the bakini....those fish were on for a while before
those guys even had a clue....lol
Scul
Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:
Gregg...
quote:
Originally
posted by Gregg
Rob what would you say is the composition of the bottom in the areas that
produce best for this technique? Are you stirring up a lot of dirt? Do you get
caught up often? Mahopac is a very rocky bottom pretty hard to drag a tube for
long with out getting caught up, I've tried
Without a doubt, the chunk rock or cobble bottom is the best and yes, snags do
happen. Hook size seems to play a role in this. Just ask Noel (wnybassman), who
has been known to tie on an 'obscene' amount of tubes during his drag. He
generally pre-rigs 2 or 3 dozen before an Erie trip.
I, on the other hand, have not had much of a problem with snagging, which might
have something to do with my general use of 2/0 hooks instead of 4/0 (which is
about to change, due to a plethora of tube heads provided by Noel a few
weekends back). I also use Fusion line on my draggin' setups, with a 10 pound fluoro
leader. The Fusion, which has a strong floating tendency, may position my hook
point ever so differently to avoid the snags. I have had days when I would
re-tie 2 tubes for every 30 of Noel's, with overall even fishing throughout the
day.
Rocky bottom is much more preferable to Smallies than soft, silty and sandy
bottoms. Especially be looking for hard bottom along dropoffs and adjacent to
major structure, such as a point, reef or breakline. Concentrate on these
areas.
Ideally, you definitely DO want to be agitating the bottom when you drag a
tube. If you are feeling the tube thump along, you are doing it right. Small
clouds of kicked up silt and debris won't hurt the fishing, and mimics a
darting crayfish. That's the ticket.
There's something about the natural drag that cannot be easily imitated under
power, especially on Lake
Erie. The waves and
undulating water just seem to make the drag very natural in appearance to the
Smallies - or something.
Tight Lines...
__________________
"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing
in WNY - A Personal View
> email
- RobJinWNY@hotmail.com
Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:
Heh, heh...
And what Noel said, too.
Man, we were typing away very near the same time, bud! Now that's scary!
See ya tomorrow!
Tight Lines...
__________________
"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing
in WNY - A Personal View
> email
- RobJinWNY@hotmail.com
Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
Candlewood Info
Last evening I spoke with
someone, who shall remain nameless, at his request. lol He claims the primary
reason in his opinion that the "Erie Drag" presentation is not
effective on Candlewood is that the structure/cover neccessary is not present
in sufficient quantity.
He goes on to say that Candlewood is a man made impoundment with some rock,
though not an abundance of it. Most of the rock that can be found in the lake
is in less than five feet of water and within a short distance from the
shoreline.
The smallmouth here are usually not found "relating" to this rock
cover in any numbers, though there are a few exceptions. For the most part you wont
find Candlewood smallmouth on the bottom, but suspended off it.
In the spring the fish are suspended off steep bluffs adjacent to spawning
flats. After the spawn they return to these steep bluffs before breaking off
into "hunter killer packs" following the schools of bait throughout
the summer.
In the fall a few fish will move shallow, but the majority of them will suspend
over or just off of the many humps which can be found throughout the lake.
There are old house and building foundations as well, but once again, the fish
will suspend over them.
In the spring he will drift the deep edges of the spawning flats (8-10 feet)
where the larger smallmouth bed. This is the only occasion where he has had any
success while dragging a bait on the bottom in Candlewood.
Also he says....an I appologize for the mis-information, Art Singer has won
over 200 tournaments in total, not on Candlewood. lol
He did say that in the mid 80s Art won 11 consecutive tournaments on
Candlewood. Wow....not to shabby.
Scul
Posted by mr jig on 2002 AM:
Ray and "nameless"
Speaking for many lakes
that i know,nameless is correct.
What "nameless" is saying is that different environments alter
behavior and those behaviors dictate appropriate presentation.
Remember when you were telling me about the Erie drag in 40 ish water and i said it would be a waste of time in many
of my smallie waters?
Clearly we were both right.
Different environments and seasonal behaviors.
Beauchene, Whitefish Res. Crotch and countless other PQ Ont NB NY NH ME
lakes i know, in the prespawn 37f to low 50s the bass are in 8-12 ft within a
few days of ice out.
They are spooky and in clear spring water you will not drift over them dragging
a tube and catch them.The best technique on Champlain (pre spawn) is to drift
or anchor on the 8-15 ft flats and cast downwind as far as possible and allow a
slack line drop with an internaly weighted tube. After the tube rests as long
as you can stand, the tube is dragged toward you about a foot with the rod.
It is being watched for as long as it sits and a fish will just be there when
you start the drag.
Most places i pre spawn fish this approach is less effective than swimming hair
or a Brewer.On Champlain which shares the big flats with Erie or Ontario, the bass are shallower and while they respond as great
lakes fish do to a dragged tube, they will not tolerate a boat passing over
them first.
Best.
dick.
Posted by wnybassman on 2002 AM:
quote:
they will not tolerate a boat passing over them first.
Dick, perhaps using planer boards while drifting to keep the tube from running
in the same track as the boat might help not to spook them fish. Sorry, couldn't resist!
From the above posts, it sounds like there is a distinct difference between
dragging on natural lakes, and dragging on impoundments. Most everywhere I've
done it with success has been natural waters. The only impoundment I have ever
tried it was Kinzua Reservoir. Although I have never caught one there dragging
(attempts have been very limited though), I know some who have.
__________________
Bassman's Thread of the Web - A
Look at WNY's Bass Fishing
- Protection
and organization of your rods
"Perhaps God gave the answers, to those with nothing to say" -
Savatage
Posted by Paladin on 2002 AM:
Candlewood Dragging
I've had great success on Candlewood with both heavy football/hula combos and heavy insert heads with large Venom tubes. Light heads don't seem to work as well. Dragging foundations and roadbeds in the later fall as an alternative to inside edge spinnerbait bite when that is off. If this spinnerbait bite is on though, I'll chase the lmb first! Lightish colors work best and I seem to catch more smb than largies. New Milford arm has some great places for this type of fishing. 15 - 25 feet deep. CB is right though Scully, you need to find the hard bottoms, because a lot of Candlewood is bog and silt at 30-40 feet deep.
__________________
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Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
aaahhhh a Candlewood guy..lol
Paladin....we HAVE to
talk...lol That place drives me to drink (Candlewood) It is without a doubt the
most "finicky" body of water I have ever fished.
Scul
Posted by Scully on 2002 PM:
finally figured it out...
Paladin....finally
figured it out...lol. How are you. The... CB fooled me for a second..lol. He
sold the house and will be gone by mid December. The e-mail still stands
though...lol.
Scul
Posted by mr jig on 2002 PM:
Planer boards. Oh Yeah.
Not my idea of a quality
experience.
Like downriggers.....UGH!!!
My favorite spring lake for lakers and smallies at ice out has a couple of
dedicated planer board types.
They do well on stockies ,mostly sub 18 inch lakers and no bass.
Within a long cast of their inboard planer board i'm catching 4-12 lb lakers with
an occasional 15 lb+ on light spinning gear.
Mixed in are many 2.5-3.75 SM bass and the odd LL Salmon.
I prefer to do it "my way"