Posted by fishEguy on 2003 PM:

Gamakatsu vs. Mustad Ultra Point

I've been using Gammies for around 10yrs now, including EWG Worm hooks, G-Lock, Offset Worm, Shiner, Octopus, Trebs, etc. etc. I love em'!... The one complaint I have though is the occasional rolled points you get with some models.

I recently got some free Ultra Point Mega Bite Wide Gap and Soft Plastics hooks, and purchased a few more packs (almost for free) from ebay..
Out of the package the Gammies feel MUCH sharper with a light tap of the finger on the point or dragging them against the skin/fingernail.

With a little more pressure applied, the Mustads also start to feel pretty sharp. I've also seen the UltraPoint demonstration where the hook is ripped across a block of wood or other object and the hook point maintains it's integrity. Holding them in my hand, they certainly look and feel like the tips are stronger than similar Gamakatsu hooks.

My question is this: Has anyone used BOTH of these hooks on the water? What was your hooking/landing percentage of the UltraPoints compared to the Gammies? Any comparisons and observations are appreciated.

Thanks........
Michael

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Posted by tubeking on 2003 PM:

i have used and still use both.for the price ultra point is great.they are also more durable than gammy.gammys are alot sharper though out of the package.if u want 2 use a realy good hook owner is the choice.diachii is good also but 2 expensive

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Posted by thefishingline on 2003 AM:

Spend the extra couple of pennies and get Daiichi's. They blow away both of these companies. No camparison

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Posted by Bass Rat on 2003 AM:

Diachi doesn't make the EWG.

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Posted by Greg Hill on 2003 PM:

I use Gamakatzu hooks for senkos ,salty worms,case sinking shads ect. and I'm very satisfied with them for that purpose.The points do seem to roll fairly easily,but with the point tucked into the plastic it isnt a big problem.
I use a particular tube head for the fatter style tubes that a local shop pours.The mustad ultra point on those heads can be dragged over rocks seeminly all day without dulling or rolling the point.I find that to be remarkable. The wire on these particular hooks(3/0 4/0) is heavier than I prefer, but nothing is perfect.

Posted by patx on 2003 PM:

Man - Im glad you guys started this thread. I was just talking with someone the other day about how strong and sharp those Ultra Points are. The are a little heavier than Gammies, but if your flipping or throwing a worm, I find it deadly. I played with them at the end of last season, then I used them twice this year in FLA - Very happy so far.

Glad Im not the only one who noticed! I guess we will be able to really get a test out of them this year with a bunch of us using them. Do they make trebels? Their hooks would work great while replacing light wire hooks on jerkbaits in order to get them to suspend a little more - like the rapala thread I read two days ago.

Hmmmmmmmm.

Pat X

Posted by thefishingline on 2003 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Bass Rat
Diachi doesn't make the EWG.

Extra Wide Gap?

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Posted by Charlie on 2003 PM:

Despite my Gamakatsu sponsorship I have yet to find a problem with any of the range offered! IF they get blunt, change the hook!
When I fish in a tourny I change the hook every 3rd fish or 1/2 hour to avoid ANY chance of a dull hook point or a weak knot.

Yes Rich....EWG = Extra Wide Gap.

Tight Lines and Sharp Hooks!
Charlie

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Posted by Nick on 2003 PM:

Greetings Gang!

I definetly have to go with Rich on this one. The Daiichi and X Point hooks are by far the best I have ever used. I say this, not because I am affiliated with them but because I have fished them, along with nearly every other worm hook on the planet, and honestly find them to be the best. Not to say the others arent good, I just find that the XPoint X-Gap hooks are the sharpest and strongest, and despite those features are also the thinest.

You can just about forget about point roll over too. Because of the X style cutting point, they nearly never roll over even after hours of use. The Daiichi's believe it or not are even more indestructible than the XPoints and nearly all of them are saltwater grade. They make some awsome hooks for drop shotting too.

All in all I would say the only hook that rivals them is the VMC line of worm hooks, but still...I have to say advantage: XPOINT

Tight Lines!

Also, for all you senko anglers out there, Daiichi makes a Circle Wide hook spefically designed for wacky fishing. I have not yet had had the chance to fish it yet, however it looks great, and as soon a I give it a shot I will report back to everyone!

Nick

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Posted by fishEguy on 2003 PM:

Ok guys, this is getting interesting.

I've used VMC, Owner, Eagle Claw, Mustad (except UltraPoints), etc. All make some quality hooks.
However, Personally I've found the Gammies to have the best hooking/holding ability of all of them. Combined with a complete selection of styles and the fact they are readily available is why I use them.

The only hooks I haven't used are the Daiichi, X-Point, and Matzuo, but I'm not sure how much sharper a hook can get than a Gamakatsu. Using Gammie hooks, quality line, properly tied and cinched knots, as well as religiously checking my line and hook point, I rarely lose fish these days. But when I do, I usually find the hook point has rolled (it's gonna happen occasionally unless you check the hooks and line every single cast). So my concern isn't sharpness, it's trying to find a hook that hooks/holds as well as the Gammie, but doesn't have an issue with the rolled points. That's why I was interested in the UltraPoints.

CHARLIE
As I stated earlier, I love these hooks. And I change them immediately if I find one with a blunt tip. I agree with you 100%, problem is, I pay for my hooks and can't change them as frequently as someone in your position to ensure I don't lose a fish. And I spend far more time searching for one or two trophy fish rather than numbers, so I'd like to eliminate ANY chance of a rolled tip occuring at the most inopportune time

NICK
Thanks for elaborating on the Daiichi thing. I was going to ask Rich why he felt they "blow away" the Mustads and Gammies.
Question, the X-Points are made by Daiichi, correct? After reading all the kudos for these hooks, I'll have to check them out this year as well. Just not sure there is enough selection of styles available for freshwater applications. As Bass Rat mentioned, I'm not aware of Daiichi making an EWG, but I know X-Point makes the X-Gap pattern that you mentioned. That's why I'm curious if they're the same brand.
I NEED my EWG hooks! I think I would have convulsions if I suddenly realized I had no EWG's on board, Yikes!..

PAT
Mustad makes the "Triple Grip" treble, and they are supposed to be phenomenal hooks. I was hoping someone had some experience with them also and could fill us in on their performance. Here's what they look like. The gap between the shank and the hook point is the same distance as a standard treb., plus they come in a regular size, short shank, and extra short shank sizes!

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Posted by bearpaw on 2003 AM:

Overlooked importance

I am partial to different hooks for different types of baits and lines that I am fishing. I want to first say If you think the hook is dull, I go by this saying when in doubt throw it out. I never sharpen hook points, except when using Johnson spoons. As Far as treble hooks go, the triple grip mustad hook are the sharpest trebles on the market. I have changed many many jerks and crank bait factory hooks with the triple grip. They are Phenomonal!!! I also, like the excalibur hooks for the awkward bend. I firmly believe that hooks are overlooked by most anglers. This is one of the most important features between landing and losing your fish. Line is a major factor in conjunction with the type and strength of the hook you use. For example, using Fusion Line or a braid with a flourocarbon leader. Not much stretch there. I need a tough hook, to make a quick and deep hookset. I use the Texposer hook for the smallersize hooks 1/0-3/0, this is tough steel. Also, I can hook larger plastics such as, a 5 inch senko and get a better presentation with the square design opposed to a round bended hook. Thus, getting wobble with the mustad Ultra Point ewg. The Texposer hook will not bend during the hookset. And the square shape of the hook gets a real deep penetration for my style of fishing. This hook is great around docks, open water, and on the edge of weedlines. I do not like this hook in Thick weeds due to the square shape of the bend has a tendency to catch on weeds or lily pads thus, jaring the hook during the fight. I have had trouble with Gammies of this size with the braided and Fusion lines. The Gammie ewg worm hook has a tendency to bend due to the low or no stretch of the line, thus not getting a great hookset or one at all. Also, for the same reasons I use owner RigN hook for smaller baits such as thin worms and finnesse fishing. The steel is extremely strong for the guage of the hook. Also, Owner is one of the sharpest and toughest points on the market. For the tough stuff , weeds, pads, timber. I use the Owner, Wide gap plus. I like the powerful and fast penetration of this hook. This is probably the strongest round bend hook on the market (Xpoint is pretty strong from 3/0 on up). Also, the weeds and stems have a tendency to slide off the rounded bend just off the shank, thus allowing the hook to go deeper during the fight. The Mustad Ultra hook4/0 and 5/0 do a fine job for the hand poured frogs that I make. To be honest I have never tried the Diiachi hooks due to I like what I like right now for my style of fishing. I didn't want to get into each hook rolling and flipping in the fishes mouth and the fall rate of the different guages of hooks with baits, this post is long and boring enough. These are just some of the personal things that have worked and not worked for my style of fishing. I am very confident for the last couple of years on my selection of hooks. I am ready to go.

John O

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 AM:

Triple grip

To Fish guy, The company to get the triple grip is staminainc.com. They sell the lowest price triple grips for the 100 size. right now they are $24.00 for 100. just for info. I have spent over 100.00 on these hooks in the last 2 years. You cannot believe how sharp these hooks are. along with the shape of the hook. You can't miss.

good luck!
john O

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 AM:

Nick

Nick,I have tried the circle hooks for drop shot. I threw the rest away. I didn't like the circle hook. But That's just me. I like to set the hook and maybe that is my problem with the circle hooks. Fror drop shot I like the Owner down shot hook, owner mosquito hook, and I have used and liked the gamakatsu g-lock worm hook for cannon ball shotting in the thick weeds. Doing the drop shot I have wacky rigged with the circle hooks (Gammie) . I just couldn't get a good hookset. The reason is (I learned after the fact) the fish hooks' themselves while you just sit back and relax while watching tv. Not me man! Give me a hookset anyday.

I like to read what the subject is in the thread. Then write on the subject, then go back and read everyone elses thoughts. Thats why I answered you guys in three different posts. Try it sometime!

Take care and good night it's 3:00am

Johnolsen

Posted by patx on 2003 AM:

Actually, I have used those triple grips before. Mike Delvisco uses them almost exclusively, so needless to say, I get to throw my share of triple grips. They are pretty good hooks and I would use them again.

I guess my original question was does mustad make those Ultra Points in trebels? I tried to find them on the net, but didnt have any luck.

Does anyone know?

Pat

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:

just for the record, guys....my 9.3 LM last season was caught using an X-point hook! I had never used them before , it was the first time using that hook!

I have never had a problem with having to change gammies constantly, I feel that they hold up very good...

I also think the ultra points are excellent hooks, both sharp and strong...

hell, would be like saying, okay, choose between filet mignon, T-bone or prime rib.....why not have all! LOL.....

JOHN G

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Posted by ScottB on 2003 AM:

PtaX, yes they do make the triple grips in an ultra-point (model # 36233BLN). I use these, along with VMC Barbarian Outbarbs. One of my favorite worm hooks is the Ultra Point Megalites.
ScottB

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 AM:

patx

Mustad carries,
1. Ultra triple grips/unique bend- virtually impossible to throw the hook

2. Ultra triple grips/special wide bend

3.Ultra treble/ round bend.

From the Mustad hook catalog. Each style of hooks are regular, short shank, feathers,red, nickle and black nickle. I hope this helps.

John o

Posted by thefishingline on 2003 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Nick
Greetings Gang!

I definetly have to go with Rich on this one. The Daiichi and X Point hooks are by far the best I have ever used. I say this, not because I am affiliated with them but because I have fished them, along with nearly every other worm hook on the planet, and honestly find them to be the best. Not to say the others arent good, I just find that the XPoint X-Gap hooks are the sharpest and strongest, and despite those features are also the thinest.

You can just about forget about point roll over too. Because of the X style cutting point, they nearly never roll over even after hours of use. The Daiichi's believe it or not are even more indestructible than the XPoints and nearly all of them are saltwater grade. They make some awsome hooks for drop shotting too.

All in all I would say the only hook that rivals them is the VMC line of worm hooks, but still...I have to say advantage: XPOINT

Tight Lines!

Also, for all you senko anglers out there, Daiichi makes a Circle Wide hook spefically designed for wacky fishing. I have not yet had had the chance to fish it yet, however it looks great, and as soon a I give it a shot I will report back to everyone!

Nick

Yes, Daiichi makes Tru Turn and X Point hooks. The absolutle sharpest out of the box of any of them! You hit the nail on the head, they are virtually indestructible and I have used the same hook for a week catching big stripers on live herring...unrtill I lost the rig.

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Posted by thefishingline on 2003 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by fishEguy
Ok guys, this is getting interesting.

NICK
Thanks for elaborating on the Daiichi thing. I was going to ask Rich why he felt they "blow away" the Mustads and Gammies.

Because they are sharpest out of the box, never need resharpening and I have used them a week at a time without changing them. They actually punctured a can over 100 times and did nto need to sharpen them

I too have used many hooks over the years and it was Joe Gullo at West End B&T in Long Beach who me on to them four years ago or so. He has been a pin hooker for 30 years and when he said they were the best I took his word and tried them. I could see on the first hook on the first fish it was the best and after I used them for a while I called Daiichi and got them involved with our shows because they were so good.

These are the only hooks I have seen acutally penetrate clean through bone! I hope this answers your questions

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2003 PM:

Great thread......My take, I worked on the Owner America field staff for 5 years in the mid 90's. I love their cutting point hooks. Now that I am not a member of any hook manufacturers staff, I will tell you that TTi-X Point Hooks by Daiichi are simply the best worm hooks out there. Better temper of steel, better points, thinner diameter. Owner is a distant second. Now Mustad's black nickel hooks are no slouches either. They are affordable, deadly sharp, the points won't roll over like Gammies and they don't rust out like Gammies. My only complaint is that they are a little thicker in comparison. I have, for years used these hooks on my jigs and am satisfied that they were the best choice I could have made until recently switching to Gamakatsu's new Black Nickel Jig hooks. I'm actually writing an article that is testing these hooks. The gammie is a great hook but for the reasons I mentioned, their EWG hooks are losing ground on the others. They really have a problem with rust, even in a tackle box. I've recently made friends with a guy named Jayson Cuda, from Ct. He is the owner of Hookerz, a new company that produces Gamakatsulike hooks. I have a bunch of samples that I'll be using this season, so look for the article. The price of these are a fraction of the others and I can't tell them apart from Gammies.

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Posted by patx on 2003 PM:

Thanks for the resonses. I will order some of those Ulta trebels if I can find them. Does anyone have a source for these?

Pat X

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 PM:

Ultra trebles MUSTAD

Patx if your talking about the Ultra treble triple grips or ultra trebles round bend. There is a fishing supply catalog comprable to netcraft and barlows and that is STAMINA. They are cheaper than any other fishing supply magazine for triple grips sold in bulk 100 count at $24.00. The only problem is it takes a long time for them to ship. Up to 2 weeks. They have a web site. and the phone# is 1800 546-8922. There is more in the catalog than on the web. and the catalog is free.
John O

staminainc.com

Posted by patx on 2003 AM:

outstanding - thanks

Pat X

Posted by Woody on 2003 AM:

Johnny O

I was wondering where the ultra triple grips would be located in the Stamina Catalog ?????
I am looking at the Spring catalog and can't seem to fing them. Do you have a page number?
Also, What size shank do you prefer?(E-A-S-Y Boys and Girls)
Thanks in advance,
Woody

Posted by Bass Rat on 2003 AM:

Re: Johnny O

quote:

Originally posted by Woody
What size shank do you prefer

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Posted by Charlie on 2003 AM:

Hey Woody!
I don't have the Stamina catalog to hand, but you can go to the website at www.staminainc.com

If you have questions, call Andrew (he is the owner of Stamina) and he can answer all your questions.

If you mention my name, the price goes up 20 cents on the dollar!!!! LOL

Tight Lines!
Charlie

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Posted by bearpaw on 2003 PM:

Triple grips

Ok fellas, In the spring 2003 Stamina catalog the page # is 58, Right at the top left. They go under Mustad triple grips. There is no difference from triple grips or Ultra triple grips. They are one in the same. I definatly prefer the short shank. the long shank is way to long. I use size 6 nickle. I just got my package just today of 100 triple grips, Along with 10 blank rattle traps that I can paint up. I did real well on the blank crankbaits and 3 inch baitfish that I painted up last year. Anyway hopefully that helps

John o

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 PM:

Charlie

I have spoken to Andrew a number of times. I do alot of business with them and I never asked them why does it take so long to ship thier products. Are they a family run business or small employed? I was just wondering. Next time I talk to them I will ask.

John O

Posted by thefishingline on 2003 AM:

Daiichi has the sharpest trebles on the market and some with wide gap I beleive as well with Bleeding bait trebles too!

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Posted by Charlie on 2003 AM:

Hi John,
I have never been to the offices of Stamina, but I believe that unless you ask, they will only ship via UPS ground.

Andrew has a small group of staff working for him.

Tight Lines!
Charlie

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"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by bearpaw on 2003 PM:

Charlie

Thanks for the info, That's what I thought too about the small staff. But I have ordered more from them than barlowsand netcraft put together. Thier prices are much better on most things That I need. Also, I am going to put this out there. With you vast ray of knowledge, do you know of other places to get molds for hand pours other than Barlows, lurecraft? I have made a couple, But I just need more variety to look through.

john O