Fishing logic

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Fishing Logic Expanded: Open water "Edges"

Most of us are familiar with edge orientation of bass when we can visibly see the cover: weeds beds, laydowns, docks etc, the many variations of edges, in and around , under etc, are either visible or are more easily imagined when not visible, say for example, fish resting directly under the largest trunk of a laydown with their back up against the underside of the tree...

However, what happens when bass are in open water away from all cover: many talk of the thermocline, which is really an edge, this time, a temperature and oxygen level edge.....now, how about an algae layer which can be quite dense and extend for 3 or more feet under the surface, surely where the 'normal' water meets the algae concentration, this constitutes another edge of sorts.

One area I wonder about is baitfish schools: a large school of baitfish is almost like a big rectangle of sorts under the water, so now you have basically 4 open water edges: are the bass right under the school, or chasing it from one side of the "rectangle", or busting on the top of it?

would love to see a dialogue on here with people's experience in combing open water for some of these not so apparent "edges"....... JOHN G

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Posted by quantumman29 on 2002 PM:

edge? what edge?

i noticed quite a few viewings about this post and not many if any replies,while the thermocline is one of the more popular deep water edges in the water column,there are a few more,a shady spot from a high overhanging tree makes a very good deep water edge,normally,the bass will be just on the edge of the shade faceing the current,i actually utilized a pattern like this once during a tournament on the connecticut river,it was late july and the area had just suffered a recent flood,although the water in the river was fairly clear for the most part,most of the shoreline cover was pretty much destroyed,after spending my initial day of practice targeting the many coves in and around the river pretty much to no avail,i haphazardly stumbled upon this unique form of cover,im not noted as a deep water bass fisherman,but to some,deep water is anywhere from 5-eternities end,well i found bass holding off a slpoeing rocky bank that went down about 8 feet to the bottom of the river,the unique part was there was a gigantic oak tree on the highest point of the bank which casted its shadow out from the bank to about 30 feet out into the water,there was nothing under my boat according to the electronics,but if i quietly trolled the inside of the shadyness,i saw both bass and shad/minnows,utizing the shade,most of the bass were caught in 4-6 feet of water and the fish were very very lethargic,it took alot of casts from various lures to eventually garner enough weight of bass to place me in 7th place on the tournament day,funny thing was,i went to the spot in the early morning of the torny and didnt even see a fish on the elctronics,nor were there any around for a long ways,it actually amazed me as to where and how far those fish traveled to get to that shady spot.

as for the schools of shad creating a deep edge,its trully funny someone had wrote about this,while pre-fishing in bamma the 1st day 2 weeks ago,i went into a marina,(luckily i didnt count on this spot for the torny,because it was later determined to be off limits!) but the water in the marina was about 11 feet deep,there were schools and schools,i mean massive schools,of shad,the schools were so big that the top layer of the schools were mere inches off the top of the water,for the most part,i seen plenty of 6,7,8,9 inch bass swimming with the schools about 3 feet below the water surface and directly in the mix with the schools,from the deck of my boat i could literally see the edges of the massive schools,and i was able to see fairly deep into the water(this was one of the rare places on wheeler lake that didnt resemble chocalate milk) 6 inches off the school i seen zero bass,anything further off the school was non existant too,the bass somehow were able to follow the schools precisely and maintain themselves within the boundries of the schools,it was quite incredible,not to mention the beauty of my witnessing all these young bass feeding on these schools,if you've never seen a bass in the wild inhale a shad or minnow,it trully is a wonderful site,i was watching them flare their gills and mouthing the shads,it was awsome,i made a few casts into the schools of shad with a 3 inch rubber shad in the tennesee color(duh) and not but 2 seconds would go by and i'd nail a lil 6 or so incher,it wasnt fun after 15 minutes,as for the big boys and girls,i casted out a rattle trap and swam it slowly near the bottom of the lake in the marina,i had one really good hit,but for the most part,nothing trully spectacular,this was around 2 pm in the day,funny thing is though,as soon as my boat was on the trailer and a little after 4 pm or so,i was able to walk down to this same marina,and from the banks,i was able to see the big boys and girls swimming in there now with the schools,only thing, NO FISHING FROM THE BANKS ALLOWED!
like i said,didnt matter,it was off limits anyways!
quantumman

Posted by Northbass on 2002 PM:

Great writings and tons of info thank you. Please space and indent more often as I and others have a hard time reading. Thanks for the contributions. Rob

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Posted by Gregg on 2002 PM:

Read this earlier but didn't have a chance to answer. quantumman29 has stole my thunder a little. Have definitely seen bass relate to a shade line and as the sun move and the line moved so did the bass (remember Mammy John).

Now I don't get much chance to fish rivers so on this one I guess I'm asking more then telling but would think current qualifies when bass attempt to stay out of the current and let it bring the bait to them.

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Posted by BradC on 2002 PM:

Don't forget "mud lines"!

I have caught bass that hang in the area where stained or muddy water meets clear water. This usually happens after a heavy and on windy days or when boat current hitting the bank stirs up the bottom.

Most of the time, there are two edges, one where you can actually see where the dirty water meets the clear and the other under the dirty water where it over runs the clear water. This situation is like a weedmat or shade from a tree as the dirty water keeps the sunlight out. Gives the fish a definite edge to hide in/under.

Working crankbaits and spinnerbaits in such areas can produce fish.

Brad

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:

Guys, thanks for the contributions so far, yes GREGG, we have seen the shade line phenomena, and regardless of depth, would qualify as an open water edge.....Brad: what you are describing I have often read about and I know is much more common down south, in my waters it is rarely seen, but that is another great point.....hope we get more on this thread...... JOHN G

Posted by mr jig on 2002 AM:

Edge concept.

John.
The most overlooked "edge" is simply a transition from one bottom content to another.
On a drawdown one might see long parallel strips where mud transists to gravel and then to cobble then perhaps to scattered boulders then back to mud (basin silt)

These bottom content edges are my favorites because unlike shade lines thermoclines or cover elements ,they dont change.
dick.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Let us not forget the most common edge of all. The Surface. I would consider most true edges to be constant and not changing such as shade. Shade is an edge of sorts but not a consisitent one on a cloudy day. Seeing a body of water's contour or bottom when it is drawn down can be a fantastic way to get a picture of the changes in bottom composition etc.

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Posted by Dean on 2002 PM:

Excellent point Mr. Jig. Transition areas can be very important and as he states often overlooked. Thanks.

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by earthworm77
Let us not forget the most common edge of all. The Surface.

Good point , however based on personal experience I think you'd be wasting your time fishing anything other than the lower half.

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Posted by postcard on 2002 PM:

Other than summer-time edges (shade for laps, weed, docks etc.), I've caught fish in zones that are yards away from, but adjacent to their favorite hangouts or feeding areas.

Sometimes fish will follow a 'food chain' to areas just beyond their shallow-water areas. For example, I found schools of newborn bait fish being attacked by schools of panfish, with sportfish schooled in the same area. The 'zone' was 30 yds. from a wetland's shoreline, parallel to it, but over a 5' depth. The feeding spree was about 40 yds long, and held for 4 hours.

The 'edges' consisted of: the 5' bottom depth (no shallower or deeper), the shallow weedline (that was the normal fish hangout), and, the length and width of the food chain.

The same pattern edges were found recently over mid-lake humps. The fish had moved off the humps (in part because of heavy fishing pressure with Senkos) and because the food chain existed over 10' adjacent to the 4-5' hump depths, but only 20 yds. from the hump. Swim baits worked from 2'-5' caught schoolie bass from 1.5-2 lbs. Grubs caught 40 crappie, closer to the surface.

In tidal water from the Huson River, the 'edge' consists of drainage channels that come between large flats and the shore line, up inside the creeks. Usually bass hang just at the ends of the drainage-channels on the falling tide. The key edges are the corners of the flat, where the tide flows into or out of the main creek.

Woo Daves just won $50k in a recent classic in the creek I'm discussing. I'll bet he hit the tide just right, because he had to flood the bilge to lower the boat, to enable him to get under the low, creek-entrance-tressle, at high tide. That meant he was there for at least one tide, if not two, and then had to run north for 40 min. for the weigh-in. Woo is a river rat and is at home on rivers. The creek channel holds few catchable fish at this time of year and the water chestnut is thick and tough on the flats.

Sandbar edges are key areas in the main Hudson, depending on the tide. These bars are 40 yds from shore and extend from 10 yds to over a mile long. They create a false channel with the shore line and fish chase baitfish up them when the tide is incoming.

Edges are the only way I know how to locate fish, (other than my sidefinder sonar), and usually contain 3 key dimensions.

Good thread.
Frank

Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Bass Rat
Good point , however based on personal experience I think you'd be wasting your time fishing anything other than the lower half.

You're right Nick. Ive tried on more than one occasion up in the trees.......No bites

See ya tomorrow

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Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Frank, that was an excellent input, thanks!

Dick, you are very right, such a phenomena is unique in that it basically remains the same all the time, whereas other forms of cover can change drastically over time or only from one season to the next....

JOHN G

Posted by JPBass on 2002 AM:

quote:

Originally posted by postcard

The same pattern edges were found recently over mid-lake humps. The fish had moved off the humps (in part because of heavy fishing pressure with Senkos) and because the food chain existed over 10' adjacent to the 4-5' hump depths, but only 20 yds. from the hump.
Frank

On a recent trip to Saratoga lake last month we were fishing mid-lake weed edges. But instead of casting to the edge (which I would normally think to do) we worked our baits about 20 yds. off the weeds in open water.....And there were fish there!!

This plan was devised under the tutelage of one of our board members, Tom Kail, a local expert on that lake. He had all kinds of theories about barometric pressure and how it will move the fish in and out of cover (don't know if the same would apply to structure like the humps)....But again, just something I never would of thought to try.

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