Posted by Basspro on 2002 PM:

Better then Senkos

I am done with Senkos. Six dollars a bag is a ripoff, and I've found a replacement that is better and cheaper. The BPS Stik-Os are hardier, sink the same way and act the same way. I even tested them against senkos. A couple of weeks ago me and my friend went to Blydenberg and fished the shoreline, me with stik-os and him with Senkos. He caught eight fish, the biggest one was about two pounds, and i caught eleven fish including a five pounder, from the back of the boat. These things do not fall apart, and i can catch four fish on one, and I'd be lucky to catch two on a senko.

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Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

Basspro, how much does your computer that enables you to post this information cost. Own a boat ? A vehicle ? How many rods and reels ? Pay insurance ? Ever go out to dinner ? I am not seeking answers to these questions but rather I chuckle when I read of how fisherman are choosing to stray from a Senko because of the cost factor alone.

Everyone has a price threshold that when reached their better judgement kicks in. I do to. I use 2 sizes of the Senko but only because A) those two sizes aren't made by anyone else B) since I use those two sizes in conjunction with the Case Magic Stick I use less Senkos. I can get a lot more mileage out of my Senkos than a couple of fish and I assure you that I can get at least 10 fish per if not more with a Magic Stick. The ONLY reason that I use three models of soft stick is to achieve the drop that the fish desire. Lastly, I would reccomend looking into rigging options at your disposal as there is no reason in the world that your Senkos should only be good for a couple fish. You SHOULD be getting more than four fish on your new arrived at bait as well. As far as the assertion that you outfished your friend with your new bait, there are way too many variables there for me to attempt to pick apart. My view is that if using a Senko you would have still taken that fish given that your Stick-o "sink the same way and act the same way".

T

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:

Pro, I really have to agree totally with everything Travis just said, especially basing it on one particular trip, look at it this way, you have the beginning of all next season to really give those alternative lures a good workout and comparison, but the main gist of Trav's post I believe is to remember that all lures are tools, tools that we choose to do certain things we want, and regardless of price or whether we are getting ripped or whatever, a certain size or weight or color or anything of a certain lure may fill a specific "niche" in our arsenal, so just chucking the whole line may not overall be the best thing for your fishing "attack" plan throughout the course of an entire season , facing different waters and scenarios....... JOHN G

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Posted by HookUp on 2002 AM:

An agressive SM will hit the Senko so hard you'll loose it, but isn't that what we're all about, agressive SM? That's what I want!!

Travis is right, cost is not a factor, for me atleast.

Magic Stix are excellent, but I still buy Senkos, in the right color and size.

If the Senko does not get pulled off the hook by an agressive SM, I usually T-rig Senkos on top, flipped it over after a few fish, then wacky rig the thing. Average about 5 fish/senko. Unless that agressive one hits of couse. Then the price is irrelavant.

If you want long-lasting lures, fish tubes.

30 fish to a Charlie Case tube. Wow

Time for a beer

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:

by comparison, my Brewers slider worms were getting destroyed quite readily by only one or two fish, my thrashers, similarly.... the snoozer tube , I will admit holds up the best of all, however, plastic worms, even my favorite Berkely smelly wonders, also break up very easily....now, these other plastics may not be as expensive as a Senko, however, I find that plastics not holding up is a universal malady, not limited to just Yamamoto products....here is a little example that I mention to people somethimes:

you are on the dock getting ready to fish, a guy comes up to you and says, hey Buddy, give me 6 bucks and I will gurantee you that you will catch 20 bass out there today! and you say, wow, 20 bass, great day, sure , here is your six bucks.......but when you buy a bag of senkos for six bucks, and each one catches you 2 fish, 10 times 2 equals 20 bass in my book, then you go on one of these boards and go " those (*&)(*&ing senkos, six bucks! thats too expensive!"

HAHAHHAHAHha.......lets face it, same difference, for many of us on here, a bag of senkos is almost like money in the bank, virtually a gurantee of fish caught! Can you say that with a fancy 25 dollar Japanese crank bait?? Ask the Senko Baron, Vic Yankee rule, Nicky the Bass Rat, Castaway, and countless others on here that fish those lures extensively and catch bass extensively on them, just how much of a given it is when you buy a bag of them.....in a relative sense, that 6 bucks may not seem so expensive now.......but NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! WE WANT IT ALL! Isn't that always human nature, I am the same way many times: we want our cake and we want to eat it too! LOL.....we want the assuredness of the senko and we want to pay less money....hell, if you can do it, why not, but just don't make it a crusade or we may be biting off our nose to spite our face! JOHN G

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

The magic stick is an excellent bait. I have used Charlies baits this season and last and am very impressed with them. I don't have to spout off here again about how fragile Senkos are but they do work. Good point about them being worth it to certain guys who rely on them John. I agree. I became so frustrated with their durability I started pouring my own facsimile. Although they are a little different, I feel they are just as effective and have many benefits that will prevent me from buying Senkos again......oh yea.....I won Angler of the Year on these baits all against guys who threw Senkos religiously.....that should tell you I had an extremely successful season tournament fishing and that this homemande bait is a serious weapon.

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Posted by Scott C on 2002 AM:

Craig....
you could have used a Zebco and that silly bass kit that comes with it and out fished most of us....

Not taking anything away from your baits...cus I like them but lets be reeeeeel !!

I am almost through weening myself off Senkos...... I will use what I have if the need arises and thats that. Great bait....but it takes up too much of my fishing tackle $ allowance. Plus I want to be a better all around fisherman and not rely on them so heavily.

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

I think you guys give me too much credit and not enough to yourselves. I relied on my SS for a large percentage of my fish this season especially in the team events.

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Posted by Scott C on 2002 AM:

well dont let your head get big but you did blow us away.....

another fyi... all the bigger fish I caught all year, TX or soul fishing came on baits other than the senko. Top water baits, tubes, hard jerk baits, cranks, jigs, spinners and Salty stinkers took them all. Senko caught the most overall fish but in the 10-12" range mostly.

The only 1st place I took all year the senko never got wet.

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Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

Yeah, Senkos suck. Don't bother with them. They don't catch big fish either. LMAO.

I love this place!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Scott C on 2002 PM:

You are another one that can probably take a Snoopy pole and a bobber and whoop most of us so be nice !

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Posted by Woody on 2002 PM:

If the Senko is Soooo Bad

Why is every Major Manufacturer and Plastic Company trying to duplicate the bait?

Are they Expensive...Yes
Are they a wee bit Fragile....A big Yes
Can they be duplicated...No...That is why Gary has the patent.
Seems alot of folks have been catching TONS of fish using them!!!

My 02
Woody

Posted by Northbass on 2002 PM:

Hey Craig was it the salty sinkers or me!!!!! LOL!!!! Butthole!

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Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Northbass
Hey Craig was it the salty sinkers or me!!!!! LOL!!!! Butthole!

funny stuff, keep it comming!

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Posted by HugeFish4 on 2002 PM:

What is a Senko? I never heard of one??? LOL!

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

"Can they be duplicated...No...That is why Gary has the patent."

Wood, I'm not so sure there is a patent on the Senko itself....maybe the shape but I'm not sure. And anything can be duplicated. It is a great bait and I would fish it over the replicas but not my own.

Rob, it was the SS!!!! LOL weenis!!!

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Posted by Woody on 2002 PM:

Earthy

He designed the bait...Anything can be duplicated
I think the patent has to do with the salt injection or mix which I THINK is patented..Which has EVERYTHING to do with the fall rate.
Having never seen or fished your's...I can't comment on them but I am pretty familiar with how I have caught fish on a Wacky rigged Senko.
Tight Lines,
Woody

Posted by HookUp on 2002 AM:

Gary's also got a patten on the plastic he uses.

The reason Yamamotos fall apart so easy is the plastics the softest, most pliable from any other makers baits.

Or maybe it's just planned obsolescence.

Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 AM:

as i have said before, i personally prefer the stick-o over the senko because of several reasons... they come in colors i like and they are much more durable than the senko, but still have a good deal of salt in them for texture and faster sink rate... i am not saying that one is better than the other, it's just i have confidence in them and enjoy not having to constantly change baits to due rippage(is that a word...lol)... now the argument that spending only 6 bucks a bag for a great day of fishing is a valid one, if that is the bait you have confidence in...i just don't believe that the senko has some 'magic" quality that the stick-o or magic stick doesn't have...yes, gary invented the thing and it is a wonderful bait, and if you want to buy it for the one reason of supporting the inventor then that is cool also... i just personally believe that the extreme salt content serves 2 purposes for the company, both brilliant: a faster sink rate and faster destruction, hence you have to buy more baits...it is an ingenious marketing ploy IMHO

i will say it again because i find it compelling: if 10 senkos cost 6 bucks and 10 stick-os on sale cost 2 bucks and the stick-os last twice as long as the senkos, then you are actually only paying A BUCK A BAG OF 10 for the stick-os compared to the senkos... this is absolutely not the reason i use them, because i can afford to pay for the senkos and i'm no cheapskate, it's just that i prefer the stick-o because of it's durability and see no reason to spend 6 times the price for a senko.... especially on those hot days when the senko melts off your hook and you can't even cast the damn thing... i love my stick-os, but again i am no mr jig or johnG... i am still trying to figure lots of stuff out and still consider myself a fledgling bass fisherman for the most part.

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

"The reason Yamamotos fall apart so easy is the plastics the softest, most pliable from any other makers baits."

"extreme salt content serves 2 purposes for the company, both brilliant: a faster sink rate and faster destruction, hence you have to buy more baits...it is an ingenious marketing ploy IMHO"

Partially correct...the real reason is that he knows you'll throw another 6 bucks down to replace them. Is it really more beneficial to have the plastic as soft as it is...I don't think so. Salt is actually a cheap filler...the more salt, the less plastic, the more savings. It is a strategic marketing ploy to get you to spend your money. It works, he has a great bait that catches fish and is as durable as a crispy oak leaf in Fall. You'll catch one fish on every Senko so you know they work, but you will need to replace them after a day on the water. I don't care what anyone says, these baits just cost too much. I could tell you what it costs to make these things. For me it is cheap, for a major company it is miniscule. I would estimate that a ten pack including the packaging costs about 30 cents or so to make.....that is a high estimate. Each bait is selling for 60 cents so the profit is phenominal. OK...there are advertising costs I will not get into but you see the point.
Because of that, I attempted to build a better mousetrap and I came up with something I have even more confidence in!

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Posted by quantumman29 on 2002 AM:

forget about all the fake senko's........

i too have tried to use many many of the "other" senko's, forget it! for the most part they all suck,bps sticko is awful!, i have dozens of packs of speedfall senko's,they to suck!,i have at least 6 packs of another brand i purchased down south,they suck too!
till this day i have not found a senko copy that falls the same,feels the same,or have i found a copy in the colors that i have fallen in love with,close maybe,but this isnt horse shoes!as for the catch rate per senko,1 fish,possibly 2,thats it! the catch rate for all of the copies: 0 , my goal is to catch fish at any cost,as with anything in life,the really good things are costly,why? because they are the BEST! you cant drive a 1969 nova and exspect it to be a 2002 caddy, you get what you pay for,if a pack of genuine senko's is too exspensive for your wallet and you hate ythe fact of "wasteing" baits that cost 50 cents a peice,by all means you should use the copies,in the long run,i believe your catch rate will suffer! i will NEVER purchase any other senko then a yammamotto or a kinammi,both brands are in my opinion exactly the same quality, i use the 4 and 5 inch sizes religiously and basically 2 colors,both sizes and colors have produced quality fish for me all over the usa, i order 15 packs of both colors and sizes at a time directly from gary's web site,if he is sold out i buy directly from kinammi,so far i have had no problem ordering my colors and sizes, i couldnt even find senko's in alabama, i ran out of one of my primary colors the 2nd day of the torny,my bad,when i got home i had 25 packs waiting for me from ups,too bad we cant email senko's to each other,my son could have emailed me a few packs,,lmao!
quantumman

Posted by theole34 on 2002 PM:

anyone have a lead test kit at home? a stik-o, senko, magic stik, venom etc? try a test and you will be suprised. other companies use a bit of lead.. i don't know if all do, but some knock offs use lead to acheive fall rate. i noticed this when reading a warning on venoms product.

i have used a number of knock offs that produce just as well as a senko. i am still undecided on the one i will stay with. for now i still use the senko a bit. charlie case, craig, venom, bps all have their advantages.. we'll see.

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Posted by donw40 on 2002 PM:

senkos???

I guess i just don't use soft plastics enough, and i go to this channel as often as i can so i might learn, but....

i find senkos for my methods of fishing to be a good bait at times.

but say wacky rigged, i'll take a jersey rigg worm over a senko. not based on price, but rather fall rate.

the deeper i want to fish it, the more likely i'll use a senko.

5 ft of water i'll use a jersey rigg. i DO catch more fish wacky rigged in 5 ft of water w/ jerseys than senkos. perhaps just my confidence, perhaps the sink rate. but it's been borne out on a LOT more than one trip.

(cover me Huge, i think their going to shoot me!)

lol

dw

Posted by ScottB on 2002 AM:

I though the only thing patented was the name "SENKO" and that is why all the copies are able to be marketed.
ScottB

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Quantum, you are the target buyer GYCB has in mind when they made this product. A tournament angler is lees apt to question the price of a bait he knows WILL catch a fish on. I would guess that the senko is largely unkknown to many weekend anglers. The Tournament crew is the intended market. I may not like the StickO, but I'm sure it catches fish. I've used the Venom Lead bait and I know it is a dead ringer successwise for the Senko. I've also used Magic Stiks and Shuberts Salty Stick and they are both great baits. I kicked the snot out of the fish one day on a Shuberts 6" bait while my friend got nothing on a Senko. The Fall rates may be different but you are assuming that the bass always want the fall rate that the Senko provides and I do not agree on that. One cool thing about making you own is that you can control the amount of salt. I can make them heavy to come very close to the quick fall or lighten them up to fall slower. The salt provides double duty as once a bass grabs the bait, it eats the bait.

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Scotty, you may be right about the name beingf patented but I have seen other companies use the name senko. Such as Alsenko. A Cal. handpour co on ebay.

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Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

"The salt provides double duty as once a bass grabs the bait, it eats the bait.."

Earthy so you mean to tell me that in YOUR experience bass like the taste of salt ? In the archives I read about how bass have a gag reflex. The writer drew comparisons between our reaction to heavily salted food items and a bass' in the same situation with salt which explained why they(bass) pick up a bait and drop it so quickly. This piece also stated that there was something like a 2-3 second window to set your hook because of this gag reflex.

I of course asked questions concerning these statements and they never got answered. The number of gut hooked fish on a heavily salted bait tells me that the gag reflex was only experienced by me while reading the above.

T

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Travis
The number of gut hooked fish on a heavily salted bait tells me that the gag reflex was only experienced by me while reading the above.

T

Funny stuff

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Posted by basserachi on 2002 PM:

I guess I'll chime in and say that all plastics are unique in their durability, action and other quality factors and it shouldnt be a surprise that cost would vary too...I am ashamed to say that I spend $$$ with the best of them in my bass fishing, but cost can sometimes be an issue if you are sifting through dinks that are tearing up your five-inch senkos in search of quality fish...All other fishing options aside, sometimes there's no escaping the magic of the 5"senko...

I think that a lot of the action or fall characteristics are attributable to the air content of the plastic...And to have greater buoyancy, you've gotta have more air or salt impregnated into the bait...By nature, that just weakens the integrity of the bait, and the durability is therefore compromised...Thats why I only use certain "go-to" plastics in important situations but will essentially feel like I'm wasting time with other plastics, because they are cheaper than other baits...Finding a happy medium for a given style of bait like a jerk-worm, creature bait or tube can take time, and can result in an accumulation of crap you'll never use again...

I havn't seen any senko-like baits other than the Kinamis (Derik Yamomoto's) that have the same appeal to me or the bass I catch...It could just be a confidence thing, but in my best objectivity, all the copies I've tried leave something to be desired...I havn't tried these Magic Stix but on the reputable word of this board, I sure am gonna...The bps stick-os dont do it for me yet...I think that the Cigar Worms sold at Bob's Bait and Tackle blow really hard !!! The other jerkworms sold at bps like the Chompers and others, don't seem that much of a bargain in relation to the senkos...So why risk it...I know senkos work, and so does half of the fishing and non-fishing planet !!!

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 PM:

T- I think that bass might hold a salted bait because it tastes like something real. I don't buy the gag reflex thing. I've had my fingers down a bass' throat and never got puked on!!

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Posted by lastcastme on 2002 PM:

OH YEA!!!!

I had a bass on Forge throw up a half digested Shad right into my hand!!!!
I had to thank him for sharing,but the color was a little funny so I passed.

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Posted by basserachi on 2002 PM:

Thats right Earth, I agree...

The added salt buys you a fraction of a second extra time to feel the bite because they hold on longer...The actual baked in salt goes much farther than the little sprinkle many companies use on the outside...It also makes the bait feel more lifelike, because some of the harder plastic that would normally be part of the bait, has been displaced by softer plastic, rich in air bubbles or salt...

I've inadvertantly tasted a senko while cutting a line with my teeth...They are salty all the way through...I still spray additional scent atop all my plastics including brand name Senkos...The added scent may extend the fish tasting advantage by causing them to hold on longer, and not so much as an attractant, which i don't buy into...

NY-bassers, put your jerk-worm to the taste test...Bite into one !!! A Senko-Salad maybe for an appetizer?

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Posted by BradC on 2002 AM:

quote:

Originally posted by earthworm77
I kicked the snot out of the fish one day on a Shuberts 6" bait while my friend got nothing on a Senko. The Fall rates may be different but you are assuming that the bass always want the fall rate that the Senko provides and I do not agree on that.

Hey earthy, where are you getting the Schubert's baits? Any place online that sells 'em or shows the colors? I saw some in a store up in Ft. Wayne a couple of weeks ago and picked up some in the watermelon candy color which Yammie does not have. Looks to be a good bait. but I have yet to give them a try.

On the fall rate of the baits, if you want different fall rates, that is all the more reason to experiment with all the baits. That's what I have been doing.

As for the durability issue, those smallies you guys catch must treat Senkos worse than LM's. I can average about 3-5 fish on a Senko and that is before re-rigging on the other end, shortening the bait a bit and re-rigging or using the bait wacky style in the middle. I have yet to have a copy last any longer either...at least when the copy is getting bit as much.

Brad

Posted by Travis on 2002 AM:

Brad 10 or more smallmouths on a Case Magic Stick(before having to shorten) is not out of the question for me. The yammie SS hook is my choice. I rig them INTO the baits nose and not THROUGH the nose.

I haven't heard of anyone else rigging in this manner.

I also have a way of making them even softer(senko like). But that's staying under my hat and by making them as such will of course affect their longevity.

T

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 AM:

C'mon guys!!!

Senkos and their nock-offs all work O.K., but some work a LITTLE better than others at CERTAIN times!

Overall, it comes down to one thing

C O N F I D A N C E

you all know that.

i have my most confidance in GY senkos, but stik-o's, ect. DO usually produce about the same - sometimes better, sometimes worse - but the difference is usually NILL.

Remember, subtle differences in presentation can make a HUGE difference with these types of soft plastics.

Lance
PS: I still think there is no better all around bait than a tube

Also - travis - is that softer case stik trick, similar to the slug-o trick?- cause there is 2 ways to make any soft plastic bait softer.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Brad, I got them from one of Shuberts reps that I have a good friendship with. I also have some of the tubes which by the way are available in more colors than most guys could imagine. Actually, DR from this board can likely hook you up with a place to get them. As far as making baits soft, email me. I do not want to let T's secret out of the bag on the board but I know how to do it too.

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Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Guys! what's with the I can't tell you the secret business....LOL....making the bait a little softer? Big WOWEE! Craig, if I gave you any of 20 brands of soft jerks or senko alikes, you would attract bites with your presentation before the softness would make a bit of difference......the only time I feel softness might help is with soft jerks where your hook up ratio might not be satifactory, lots of people had that problem with sluggos originally, but with the right hook, sluggos hook up just as well as anything else... and Trav, the same goes to you, anyone who thinks they are going to mimic you and Earthy by knowing the softness secret is in for a rude awakening......best way to learn how to fish like these guys is to be with them on the boat and simply watch them, that will make up for any difference you might have in the softness of your bait! HAHAHHA......

Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

John there are ways to make any soft bait more soft....some don't leave the colors intact. As far as the rest, the reason I didn't mention how to do it is because I would rather hear posts on the WHERE and WHEN than the what......you're right the how soft a bait thing is doesn't mean a tinkers butt to most folks....or at least it shouldn't. I was expecting to have 10 responses as to how to do it today and then I could have said what I just did. You stole a bit of my thunder....

good post, T

Posted by Scott C on 2002 PM:

quote:

I also have a way of making them even softer(senko like). But that's staying under my hat

Son of B!^C# !!!! I thought he meant he puts the damn things under his hat to soften 'em................

I went out and bought that had you wore on Maho and everything...............

Damn !!!!!!

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Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

You didn't waste your $. That's what I meant. ..

T

Posted by New Wave 83 on 2002 PM:

As long as senkos are producin' for me... 6 bucks a bag is worth it
-NW

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

John, I'll agree with you that the softness of the bait isn't what attracts fish to bite it. But, there are a few copies that are really rigid and this method to make them more pliable actually is a plus for giving the bait a better action. I think that was where Trav was going with this post. Obviously the softer they are, the easier they break.
I am a big fan of really soft hand pours for different situations though. These actually help out once the fish has sucked in the bait.

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Posted by Scott C on 2002 AM:

YES !

Finally I got something right........

Thanks Trav !

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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Guys who have been emailing me about they hand poured Salty Stinkers. If you live on LI, go to Ronkonkoma outfitters. They have them there in several good colors. If you do not live on LI and would like them, email me. I'll tell you what I have in stock. I just wanted to do one post rather than email everyone back this mssg.

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Posted by TVal on 2002 PM:

Love this thread

Have really loved the banter in this thread. IMHO.
If Senkos didn't work, nobody would buy them.
This is the free market system at it's best. Buy what you want, pour your own, come up with a knock off, refuse to buy into the craze. Your Choice!!
How many out there complaining about the cost of Senkos are still smoking a pack a day????
Travis, can I market a "Senko hat" under your name? Little slots for different colors, lengths, etc. A tag along "Senko hair cream-scent" combination to complete the package. "Not available in any store"LOL
Good fishing!
Tim

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Posted by Charlie on 2002 PM:

Geeze!

I'm gone for three months and it looks like the same threads are still running!

Love it or hate it, Yamamoto is here to stay.

I am sure it was the same when the "modern day" spinnerbait was first invented. Everybody liked the ol' "safety pin" or "spinner bug", but life goes on.

Take it, or play golf!

Tight Lines!

Charlie

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