Posted
by GlennNewYork on 2002 AM:
What's your opinion???
Bill would ban lead
sinkers from
A pair of measures would ban the sale of lead sinkers weighing less than half
an ounce.
Environmentalists say the small weights that anglers attach to their lines to
keep them submerged are a threat to wildlife.
They say the small lead sinkers are killing
The ban on the sales of lead sinkers would be phased in over two years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am strictly an artifical lure angler so I rarely
use sinkers but how do you think this will effect jigs
and other such rigs that use lead?
__________________
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GlennNewYork
formerly GlennNY
Limit your take; Don't take the limit.
Posted
by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:
Hunters got used to using
steel shot instead of lead years ago and there is no reason why fishermen
shouldn't have to follow suit.
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 AM:
BULL SHIT!! SORRY... But
those are the ONLY words I can think of to describe this idea. YEAH... Lead sinkers are killing waterfowl... I think the
average, from what I have read and researched, is about 2 ducks and 2 Loons per
year... NATION WIDE. Another foot in the door for PETA
and all of the other tree huggin',
spotted owl kissin', leg warmer wearin',
lesbian whale watchers. You had better THINK about what you are supporting,
before fishing and hunting is outlawed all together. FACT... MORE ducks and
geese are becoming "cripples" and are dying long after being hit, due
to problems with steel shot. I TOO fish artificial MOST of the time, but I
still use a
There are THOUSANDS of children, and other innocent people, dying each year by
abuse, neglect, drugs, alcohol, polution and other
means... Let's do something about THIS before we start to worry about 2 or 3
DUCKS! 
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by Gregg on 2002 AM:
Think this has come up
before here or on another board because this law has been passed in other
states. If I remember correctly jig with lead heads OVER 1" are exculed because it to large for the birds to swallow.
Is this really that big of a problem in NY
__________________
Gregg
Posted
by bink on 2002 AM:
You are correct Gregg, that is the ban here in 
Posted
by Scott E. on 2002 AM:
The Ban on lead
On the ride to the Bashakill Marsh yesturday I was
listening to the radio and a news reporter was talking about the NY ban on lead
sinkers. Unlike
Think about this before you say you are all for it and take a look through your
tackle bags and boxes, how much lead do you own under a 1/2oz? My guess is most
of our lead tackle is under the proposed size limit.
Also what about our small tackle manufacturers like Earthy and his Micro-Munch
Jigs where most of his products are well under 1/2oz, but with a ban like NH's
he could still do business.
This lead ban is unexceptable to me as it is may
protect the loons and other waterfowl, but it does seem to be more of an attack
on freshwater fishing, possibly a first major attack on our rights by PETA
supporters.
Anyone have info on who is the author of this bill?
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the
devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted
by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Scott although I would be
very disappointed, I do most of my business out of state and don't think that I
would be too effected by it. Hopefully if the damn
thing passes, they will adopt a similiar stance as
NH. The 1/2 oz rule is utterly dumb!!!! If a bait has
to be at least an inch, does that include the hook????? Bink,
help me out here on this. I can't see a friggin loon
swallowing a 1/4oz Jig n pig hook/skirt/trailer and all. If it is that
stupid...well that might be natures way of trimming
the herd...survival of the fittest...ehhhh????
__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com
Posted
by ADKBass on 2002 AM:
Bill sponsors:
Senate: Marcellino (
Assembly: Englebright (
__________________
"Time spent fishing does not count against our allotted time on this
earth." Joe V. - The Troll
Posted
by Charlie on 2002 AM:
Lead shot was banned in
I personally have no problem changing over and this is a sensible piece of
legislation for ONCE!
I have seen the effect of lead poisoning on birds and it's not pretty.
Sometimes, in order to please the ignorant (PETA etc), we have to make changes
that to the angler, may seem trivial. The plus for the
angling community is that when "they" see our willingness to help the
environment, the senators and elected officials understand the power we have
when it comes time to vote!
The fisherman's vote, is a vote for the future
generations!
Tight Lines,
Charlie
__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler,
Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
Any bird would love to
slurp down one of your tasty little jigs EW. If I recall right a Loon will gulp
down a 1/4 jig tipped with a nice tasty piece of pork or heavly
scented platic. Even your tasty little 1/8oz jig I
own passes the test here in NH It reads something like this to use lead it must
be longer then one inch from head to curve of hook so after measuring your
small jigs both passed each is slightly over an inch from head to curve of
hook. the biggest change was/is split shot and bullett/worm weights that are never longer than an inch.
Fish swallows split shot which in turn gets eaten by the Loon and so on. I'm no
fan of Peta but I dont
think they are to blame for every outdoors issue that goes against outdoorsman,
had we the fisherman not been so careless with our lead this might not have
happened. 
Posted
by wnybassman on 2002 PM:
I have to believe more
waterfowl die as a result of getting entangled in discarded fishing line, than
lead sinkers. I wouldn't think that would be too pretty either, but what do I
know 
__________________
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Protection and organization of your rods
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Posted
by Scott E. on 2002 PM:
I
am not for this Bill though the way it is!!!
Guys,
I understand a change needs to be made as far as using lead but this bill so
far is targeting all lead tackle under a 1/2oz. Now I could deal with this if
it was lead tackle under 1" from head of hook to
bend and from what I have read this is not the case, so we will be losing a lot
of tackle that has lead under a 1/2oz.
Copied and pasted from the DEC website:
Non-toxic Sinkers and Jigs
The loss of sinkers and lures is a routine part
of fishing. Unfortunately, lost jig heads and sinkers, especially split
shot, may be mistaken for food or grit and eaten by waterbirds
such as ducks, geese, swans, gulls, or loons. Toxic effects
of lead causes the birds to sicken and increases the risk of death
through predation, exposure, or lead poisoning.
As such, anglers are encouraged to use non-toxic sinkers. Your favorite tackle
shop carries a variety of alternatives to lead weights and jig heads, including
items made from such non-poisonous materials as steel, tin and bismuth. By
purchasing such non-toxic fishing tackle, you can help reduce the risk of lead
poisoning to birds, and assure that your fishing has minimal environmental
impact.
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the
devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted
by Greg Hill on 2002 PM:
Gypsey, now you dunnit. Dont be
using disparaging words about lesbians.I love em..and know for a fact if I had
been born a woman,I'd be one too.I
aint talkng about the ones
who operate jackhammers for a living.......but those little cuties that show up
on Howards show late at night.THEY
deserve our respect!
If Will's right about the # of birds killed by lead,and
I'd bet he is,I agree with him.I
use split shot rigs and slip sinkers fairly often myself,and
I 'd hate to be forced to use expensive replacements.I
was in BPS in Hanover Md. today and saw tungsten drop shot weights priced at a
buck per 1/8 oz sinker.After seeing Pat X post about dropshotting and the need for using tungsten(and knowing he
knows what he's talking about)I decided I didnt need
to drop shot.I'm all for reasonable laws to protect wildlife,but I hate to let the camels nose under our tent,for laws that have no real effect on wildlife.I wish we could see some brave politician
introduce a bill allowing for control of commorants,which
I think is reasonable considering their effect on fisheries,but
they (politicians) know the hornets nest that will stir up among those who
would scream bloody murder.If lead really is a killer
of a significant # of birds then I'm for doing the right thing.Doing
the right thing should be a two way street,even when
its less palatable but thats not the case with the PETA,or those in their pocket.
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 PM:
BOY... I was hopin' I wouldn't get "sucked into" THIS vortex,
but I can see right now... IT's TOO LATE!
Charlie...Where is it written that we have to pass idiotic laws to "Please
the ignorant"? How 'bout we "educate" the ignorant?
And Earthy... You had a good point, and what are we
going to do when the "duck lovers" want to ban monofiliment
line? Or those nasty ole hooks, or the lead on spinnerbaits??
Every time a new house, shopping mall, or Bass Pro Shops is constructed, acres
and acres of wildlife habitat are destroyed. Should we stop building houses and
Bass Pro Shops??
There are THOUSANDS of wild animals killed every year on our highways. Everyone
who is willing to give up their vehicle, for the sake of wildlife... RAISE YOUR
HAND!
We've protected
Greg Hill will tell you that I am as "Conservation"... "Clean
Water"... "Anti-Polution" minded as
anyone, more so than MOST, and I have the plaques and awards on the wall to prove
it. But I would NEVER go along with a stupid law like this. If ducks and loons
were dying by the thousands, or even hundreds, I would be the first to step up
and support such a ban... BUT THEIR NOT!! I would LOVE to see ALL beverages go
back to glass bottles, with a one-dollar deposit on them, and
"Pampers" completely OUTLAWED. But this lead "thing" is
pure burecratic BULL SHIT!! In
PS: Hey Greg!! Guess where I caught two NICE bass this morning... from the
bank?? The boat is in the garage... With the cover off and getting outfitted
for spring.
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by Ken L on 2002 PM:
I am really sceptical about all these "environmental
provisions". I am certainly pro environment but all these rcent court rulings against these wackos
when their junk science had to stand up to real scrutiny, not Oprah's or
Rosie's audience has to make you think. The Lynx study was a complete phony.
The Judge just ruled against the whole Spotted Owl mess and another ruled
against five different areas being protected because of endangered Salmon sub
species that really weren'y endangered.. How many birds are dying because of lead sinkers? Don't
give me ugly anecdotes, give me real statistics.
__________________
Ken Lyons
Posted
by JOHN G on 2002 PM:
Damn Gypsy, you are in
top fighting form!! I agree with him, it is a concession that will NOT stop
with just lead sinkers, it will soon mushroom into other items as
mentioned......if I were a lakefront homeowner whose dock had to be replaced
every other year because of the damage from "fowl" feces, I would
want to put extra lead in the water! LOL......right, fisherman are going to singlehandedly wipe out waterfowl.......tell me another
story....sorry, they will have to adapt and survive in their own manner.....
JOHN G
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 PM:
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by Pete L on 2002 PM:
Gypsy - You hit it right
on the head!!!!!!!
There are plenty of things that should be banned or outlawed that will make a
real difference. I`ve already started seeing Lead
warning labels on some jigs. If a bird eats a sinker or split shot, it will
shit it out. If thye eat one with a hook,like a jig head , it doesn`t matter what the damn thing is made of. Which probably means metal hooks with points are next.
Pete cussin cussin
__________________
Pete LaFemina
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and
"mental illness."
Posted
by Jameson on 2002 AM:
I think the ducks and
geese that are found crippled instead of dead are due to OVERWEIGHT LAZY
HUNTERS who fail to chase their game more than a few yards. Why do you think I
gave up my beloved wingshooting? Three reasons:
Lazy, UNSAFE hunters, whom I have witnessed CHUG three beers before the hunt
(pre
Hunters that are absolutely insane shots, and embarass
me with their skill. Usually those guys won't crowd your spot/shoot over MY
decoys, until they see that I am not such a great shot and am wasting the spot
pretty much.
On my last trip three years ago my cousin (and his truck)
were attacked by animal rights activists with buckets of redpaint. Ruining his hunting clothes, a whole bunch of man
hours cleaning his gun and truck. I hold that man in high regard, and even
respect the animal rights people because it takes balls to throw paint on
someone with a 10 guage.
JC
Posted
by dodgeguy on 2002 AM:
what's the big deal about switching to
brass or steel?
__________________
chrysler master technician
and avid fisherman
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 AM:
Jameson... Hopefully that
"activist" will someday throw red paint on the WRONG guy with a 10 guage. And... If the amount of
beer consumed by a group of individuals is your
criteria for staying involved in a sport... You might want to start thinking
about a replacement sport for "fishing". LOL!
Dodgeguy... The "Big Deal" is that it is
ONE MORE unecessary, idiotic, foot in the door, bureacratic, regulation on the road to banning all hunting
and fishing. Think it can't happen? Would you be interested in purchasing a
nice bridge in
Do you REALLY believe that there are THAT many ducks and loons dying from lead
poisoning?? MOST ducks do their "puddling"
and gravel gathering in less than two feet of water. How many people loose
sinkers in less than two feet of water? Show me ACCURATE AND HONEST SCIENTIFIC
PROOF of all of these ducks and loons dying... And I will be the first to call
for a ban on lead sinkers. But don't piss down my back and tell me it's
raining!!
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by ADKBass on 2002 AM:
Jameson -- if it was me,
my truck, and my dog (that would have been with me) -- the outcome would have
been very different!cussin
__________________
"Time spent fishing does not count against our allotted time on this
earth." Joe V. - The Troll
Posted
by Charlie on 2002 AM:
Gypsy!
Fact is, these "special interest groups" are
the reason that so much important legislation NEVER gets through!
Often, when they feel they have a victory, they leave the likes of you and I alone to go fish and have some fun, without harrasment from some lunatic in a fish costume, spouting
death and extinction of the species, at a bass tournament!
Lead is a proven killer of ALL animals. When bills like this get passed, and
fishermen and woman SUPPORT the legeslation, it sends
a message to others that we are not the beer swilling, tobacco chewing,
overweight dummies the New York Times and others would have the world believe!
Tight Lines!
Charlie
__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler,
Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"
Posted
by bink on 2002 AM:
Good point Charlie, Lead
kills fisherman too.
Posted
by Hawgwalker on 2002 PM:
If this is in the
legislature now…..you need to get on the ball and fight. I guarantee you that
most of your legislators do not hunt and fish; supporters of this ban will
bring in Dr. Pokras from
Loons pick up pieces of lead for their crop to aid in digestion. This lead is
usually picked up in shallow water close to their nesting sight. Over time as
less small stones are available in the area it becomes more likely that lost
lead will be ingested. Lead is always fatal in loons. You should be very
careful with lead anytime you are near nesting areas.
Every year a loon or two will die from lead poisoning. Lead though does not
have an impact on the loon population as a whole, loons are not endangered. The
lead used in fishing tackle is not like the lead used in gasoline…..it is not
effecting water quality.
A ban on the sale of sinkers ½ oz. or less is acceptable in my view. There are
alternatives avalailable; steel, bismuth, tin and
brass ( though brass is as lethal as lead) and the law
does not make possession of lead illegal …..you won’t
have your boat boarded in search of contraband. The ban on the sale will allow
everyone to “feel good”, like they are doing something.
Any way, from someone who has watched the process ……..BEWARE!
Posted
by wnybassman on 2002 PM:
Nice post Hawgwalker, and WELCOME TO THE BOARD!!!
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Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
Oh yah the issue came up
at my clubs meeting last night the lead also weakens the shells so the eggs
break and are weaker than they should be.
Posted
by Ken L on 2002 PM:
Look guys, if lead is
killing Loons, I say ban it. If its killing people or
whatever likewise. What I am saying however is that these claims have an
accuracy record that rivals my putting. The attitude of PETA, the Sierra Club,
Friends of the Earth etc., is that the ends justify the means. Time after time
when these claims are subject to real scrutiny they turn out to be nothing more
than tree hugging hysteria. These are the same people who warned us thirty
years ago the the next ice age was about to begin and
we had better do sommething about it fast! They
predicted Nuclear winter and when that was proven false the media, read that
co-conspiritors, never printed it..
The
__________________
Ken Lyons
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
how much lead has to be ingested by
an animal to prove fatal??--how many pellets have to be swallowed-how long
before they are passed?-are all these fatal pellets available in one spot?--how
deep can these animals dive?--how deep are the lead weights lost--i know lead is not good for the environment but i was taught that lead took forever to break down and was
to some extent "inert"--are there scientific studies that show water
fowl are actually dying of lead poisoning or are carasses
being autopsied and lead concentrations being found??did the animals die of lead poisoning or natural
causes and just have concentrations in their bodies??--the same with hudson river fish and pcb's-it's
not killing them-they are all still with us but it is recommened
we don't eat them--bobn-------i'm
sure i'm about to learn the answers to al my
questions!
Posted
by Bulletweight on 2002 PM:
Read this.
Bill Summary - A02669 Back | New York State Bill Search | Assembly Home See
Bill Text
A02669 Summary:
SAME AS No same as
SPONSOR Englebright
COSPNSR DiNapoli
MLTSPNSR Colton, Weisenberg
Amd S11-1301, En Con L
Directs the department of environmental conservation to institute a lead
fishing sinker education program; prohibits the willfull
discarding of
monofiliament fishing line; authorizes regulations on
lead fishing sinkers if
the education program fails.
A02669 Actions:
01/25/2001referred to environmental conservation
01/09/2002referred to environmental conservation
A02669 Votes:
A02669 Memo:
TITLE OF BILL: An act to amend the environmental conservation law, in
relation to a lead fishing sinker education program and the discarding
of monofiliament fishing line
PURPOSE OR GENERAL IDEA OF BILL:
The bill seeks to institute a comprehensive public education and
outreach program about the adverse effects of lead fishing sinkers to
common loons, waterfowl, and other water birds, and other potentially
affected bird species. If it is found that the education and outreach
program has not been successful the department is authorized and shall
develop rules and regulations banning the use of lead fishing sinkers
and jigheads.
SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS:
The bill would create a comprehensive public education and outreach
program, the purpose of which is to inform the public about the
adverse effects of lead fishing sinkers to common loons, waterfowl and
other water birds, and other potentially affected bird species; the
availability of less toxic or non-toxic alternative materials; and
what actions individuals may undertake to minimize or eliminate the
introduction of lead into the aquatic environment. Within thirty
months after the effective date an assessment of the public education
program. Upon a finding that the education and outreach program has
not been successful, the department is authorized and shall develop
rules and regulations banning the use of lead fishing sinkers and
jigheads.
JUSTIFICATION:
It has been found that the common loon in
and popular species that adds to the quality of life of the residents
of, and the visitors to, northern
certain types of lead fishing sinkers are a known cause of mortality
to common loons, several species of water fowl, and other species of
birds. Therefore, there is a need to educate
fisherpersons on the adverse effect of lead fishing sinkers to a
variety of wildlife species, and what actions individuals may
undertake to reduce the introduction of lead into the aquatic
environment.
PRIOR LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:
1994, Environmental Conservation Committee
1995, Environmental Conservation Committee
FISCAL IMPLICATIONS:
None
EFFECTIVE DATE:
This act shall take effect immediately.
Posted
by Bulletweight on 2002 PM:
Heres the link
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02669
Notice the part about fishing line?
Good thing these clowns realize that the hooks rust out after a few months.
The thing that really ticks me is the education BS. Any of
you been educated? NOT ME, I never heard a thing from DEC.
I SMELL A RAT.(Not you bass rat) lol
BULLET
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
b/w--good post--however, i wonder how much lead these guys have to eat??-bobn
Posted
by Bulletweight on 2002 PM:
Geez Bob,
This just aint my day.
I meant to say…
Good thing these clowns DON’T realize that the hooks rust out after a few
months.
If they did they’d ban a lot more than they are now. The lack of this obvious
oversight leads me to question all the science behind the legislature.
BULLET
Posted
by Mark from NY on 2002 PM:
How many companies are
making Jigs with a weight other than lead? If only a few states adopt this law
then why would a Jig manufacturer want to offer a substitute, when he has
practically the rest of the world buying them in lead.
It's a bunch of crap!
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
b/w--it ain't your day--step back take a deep breath, relax and get
a good nights sleep because all us pains in the asses will still be here
tomorrow--just kidding--relax bud--take it easy--bobn
Posted
by JOHN G on 2002 PM:
Bob, I think it's about
time for you to find out where
Posted
by Hawgwalker on 2002 AM:
“If it is found that the
education and outreach program has not been successful the department is
authorized and shall develop rules and regulations banning the use of lead
fishing sinkers and jigheads.” As I said in my earlier
post, they will try to get jigs included. They are also getting more
sophisticated in there approach guising a lead ban in an angler education
program with 30 months to educate or regulate based on evidence supplied by the
supporters of the ban.
Bobn…. Virtually any lead ingested by a loon is fatal
because it is not passed. It is stored in the crop and rattles around with
other small stones until gone. Loons do not seek out lead but if their nesting
area is located where there is a scarcity of small pebbles it become more
likely that lead will be digested.
If you fish a jig, a grub, a tube….I would be afraid of this bill.
Posted
by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
I'll tell you one
thing...if and when this happens and they ban lead...you are going to pay a ton
for baits with lead alternatives such as bismuth....I looked into this material
a while back and it is too damn expensive. Imagine paying over $4.00 for a jig.
Look at those tungsten weights 4 for 4.59...c'mon that is ridiculous!!
__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com
Posted
by hvbassmaster on 2002 PM:
Banning the sale is not
so bad! BPS and other E-tail fishing supply houses would still be there to get
jigs and such I would feel bad for the micromunch guy
he sales a great product and he is in NY well CT and NJ aren't bad places to
live.
Now if they made it illegle to use them that would
become a problem. We as a state Could loose BFL, BASS,
and Everstart tour stops that bring in Thousands of
dollars to the state and local economies.
The spinnerbaits, Buzzbaits
and jigs all use lead for the heads what next ban monofilloment
line becase the ducls get
it wraped around there bills and can't eat?
cussincussincussincussincussin
Posted
by Mark from NY on 2002 AM:
I think it is going too
far if they outlaw the use of lead on spinnerbaits, buzzbaits and other lures where the lead is molten onto a
wire frame or a bulky hook. If they just banned the use of lead sinkers under a
1/2 oz, I could adjust without a problem. But I don't foresee alot of manufacturers of spinnerbaits,
buzzbaits and jigs coming to our rescue anytime soon.
Mark
Posted
by ADKBass on 2002 AM:
Local News for Monday
3/18/02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legislators seek ban on sale of lead sinkers
By YANCEY ROY
Star-Gazette Albany Bureau
Yanceyroy@yahoo.com
ALBANY -- Lead sinkers cause about one in five loon deaths in the Adirondack
Park and kill a significant number of ducks in the Finger Lakes. Now state
legislators are trying to ban the sale of lead sinkers, which are used to
weight fishing lines.
"
Lead poisoning accounted for 21 percent of loon deaths in the
"They are often attracted to broken lines, pieces of lines or what's on
the bottoms of lines, minnows, crayfish, jigs," Stone said. "Very
often, the bird survives swallowing the hook, but they can't survive the
lead."
The gizzard grinds up the lead sinker, which is slightly bigger and heavier
than BB shot. Then the lead travels through the bird's nervous system, and into
its spinal cord and brain, Stone said. His office performs autopsies on dead
animals.
The number of dead loons isn't large, Stone acknowledged. But it is significant
because
Redhead ducks in the
"But it's the loons that really drive this issue," Stone said.
But getting fishermen to agree on a lead ban could be key
to passing a law.
Last year, the Conservation Council, an umbrella group of fishermen and
hunters, successfully lobbied against a bill that would've banned the sale and
use of lead sinkers weighing a half-ounce or less.
Would game wardens go around ordering fishermen to reel in their lines to check
for lead, the sportsmen wondered. Would enforcement officers have to carry a
device that could verify lead? What about out-of-state people who come to
And what about children caught fishing with lead sinkers -- do you fine them,
the Conservation Council asked.
So now, Marcellino and Assemblyman Steve Englebright,
"We're hopeful (the Conservation Council) will find this version more
acceptable," Marcellino said.
The council will throw the idea around this week at its annual legislative
conference, said president Howard Cushing. He didn't want to comment directly
on the idea, but added: "Maybe there's a way to compromise."
That would be fine with the Audubon Society, which has tried for years to
eliminate lead sinkers.
"We've got to get out the gate and get a program in place," said
David Miller, executive director of Audubon's
__________________
"Time spent fishing does not count against our allotted time on this
earth." Joe V. - The Troll
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 AM:
If lead
accounts for 21 per cent of the dead Loons... Shouldn't they be MORE concerned
about the cause of death to the OTHER 79 per cent too??
Also, I was NOT aware of the "Small Pebble" shortage in lakes in
Looks to me like a couple of members on this board COULD belong to PETA, SETA,
EATA or "Tree Huggers 'R Us". If you think the "Greenies"
are going to STOP their assualt on outdoorsmen, with
the passage of any such legislation, then I have a REALLY NICE bridge, near
YES... It is TRUE that lead kills other animals. I personally know of three
whitetail deer that were killed by lead poisoning this past fall. Two with 270 caliber and one with 7mm Magnum caliber. Quite tasty too! Also... Last year... 72 groundhogs, 3
porcupines, an elk, a mule deer and 11 geese.
I feel that any angler stupid enough to sit around all day, "suckin' on a sinker" he deserves whatever ailment
befalls him!
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
you guys must be losing a lot of
split shot, t rigs etc and in shallow water to kill all these birds????bobn
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
I say bring back Lead
paint and paint everyones house who doesn't think it
is harmful. When you touch lead it leaves resido(sp) on your fingers and when you eat your sandwich it's now
in your mouth,it's not sucking on lead shot. If a
duck hunter shoots into the air at a duck how many lead balls come out of his
shell and then how many hit the duck leaving how many to fall into the water or
onto the land? In my area I see hundreds of Duck Hunters in the fall along
rivers and along the road all shooting at a moving target,not at Loons but into the areas where Loons feed. I
will not even touch that crap about people like me who dont
think the lead ban is a bad idea being PETA Lovers or tree Huggers we all know
better than that.destructio
Posted
by Scott E. on 2002 PM:
Bink,
Maybe it's paranoia, but when it is stated all lead tackle under a 1/2oz. will
be banned and then in another sentence they're talking about monofilament
fishing line, it starts to sound like the whinning
PETA tree huggers are in the NY state assembly and senate and are making up
this bill.
How will they ban lead, by the sale of it or by possesion,
knowing New York and how this state likes to tax us to death it will be sale
and possesion, in order to collect on the sales tax
from a million or so fishermen that now have to replace hundreds or maybe
thousands of dollars of lead tackle with lead alternative tackle, which of
course is 30% more expensive, of course if this is so the money will never make
it back into our fisheries or go to the DEC, some NY politician will use the
money to have a library, bridge or goverment building
built and dedicated to himself.
Don't get me wrong I like to see ducks and get a little excited seeing a loon
on my local lakes but the wording of the bill seems to protect loons less than
it is a start to the ban of fishing.
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the
devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
bink--long before you were born that
was all there was--lead based paint--somehow we managed to survive-the whole
world was painted with it-yes there were casualties along the way because we
didn't know that having children eat lead based paint chips over a period of
time was dangerous-they had to actually eat the stuff to suffer ill
effects-what makes us think that the things we have now are safe??we
are progressing so quickly that we will never know-how many of us have tooth
fillings that are supposedly unsafe--we live next to high tension wires that
are unsafe--air pollution and water pollution--staring into a tv/commputer screen, all the synthetics in your house--lawn
chemicals-bug chemicals-i'm not going to worry about
some lost split shot! --bobn
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
Good points Scott. How
about this,how many NY
fisherman are members here at NY Bass? Maybe two hundred?
If each of you called and voiced you concerns maybe just maybe you could make a
difference,hell have your
wife or father call. If i were to get 200-300 calls
from people telling me I wouldnt get thier vote and further more thier
brother/sisters/Ma/Pa's vote I might listen. If the truth be known I never hear
anyone bitch'n about the switch from lead here in NH
and I fish some large Tournaments. If all the Loons were to be killed by lead
and careless Mono tosssing you would see much worse
restrictions to fishing.
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
But Bobn
you should worry about it and maybe had we worried about it sooner this ban
would not be happening.Just maybe but if your
careless with your splitshot be it Lead or Tungston your doing your fishing spot a diservice.
Posted
by Ken L on 2002 PM:
I think we all agree that
ingesting lead is not a good thing for living things. That, as the lawyers say,
is not at issue. The question is do lead sinkers kill
aquatic birds. One does not necessarily follow the other and the recent history
of these kind of claims has got to make you sceptical. too many of these
people who propose to tell you how to live your life think it's perfectly allright to lie.
Show me the evidence and I don't mean a dead Loon that somebody fed lead to.
Does it happen in the wild and if so how often?
__________________
Ken Lyons
Posted
by Gregg on 2002 PM:
quote:
The
number of dead loons isn't large, Stone acknowledged. But it is significant
because
Only a few hundred loons! We have more lakes then loons!
Why don't they only ban the use of lead and the lakes the loons reside. And just because a fisherman uses a lead sinker
doesn't mean he'll lose it! So sounds like the pellets from shotgun shells used
in duck hunting put a lot more lead in the lake then fishing!
Are they banning the use of lead in shotgun shell? (not
that PETA wouldn't love too)
__________________
Gregg
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 PM:
Lead was banned in
shotgun shells, those used for the hunting of ducks, geese and other waterfowl,
MANY years ago. You would think we would start to see some positive results
from that ban by now. If indeed it were a prudent and
necessary ban. It is still OK to hunt rabbits, quail, pheasant and other upland
game with lead shot. Sooooo... If I am hunting
rabbits near a marsh or swamp, should I use lead or steel shot? One in each
barrel maybe... Then, if the rabbit runs toward the water, I can use the barrel
with the steel shot in it.
As someone said, "the entire world was painted with lead paint at one
time". And some children were affected by the paint, but they had to EAT A
LARGE amount of it. Same thing could be said about household bleach, cleanser,
409, SOS Pads and a million other toxic substances. If you eat enough
"Prime Rib" it is not good for you. I don't know about you Bink, but I always wash my hands after I play with lead,
and before I eat MY sandwhich!
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
T^o be truthful no I dont always wash my hands after touching lead shot and I
usually eat while I fish with the sandwich on the pedistool
so no I don't wash my hands before I eat and have fished with many many guys and most eat in much the same manner. There is no
lead restrictions on NH Rivers so the split shot you cant
use on Lakes can be used on Rivers, I would assume that means Loons don't like
Rivers? like I said it is already law here and will
stay that way for ever because the Loon lovers are very vocal and connected but
you have to speak up or live with it. Oh for what it's worth I like the
Posted
by Hawgwalker on 2002 PM:
"Lead poisoning
accounted for 21 percent of loon deaths in the
Twenty one percent of 105 loons = 22 deaths over 27 years.
There has never been many loons in
Posted
by FISHIN' GYPSY on 2002 AM:
MY POINT EXACTLY!!
If Loons, or any OTHER species, including men, well... some men, were being desimated by lead poisoning, I would be the FIRST to step
up and fight for it's total ban. BUT...
THAT is NOT the case! There are probably more than ONE a year that choke to
death on bluegills... Let's get rid of ALL bluegills!! When they start wanting
to outlaw outboard motors on Loon infested lakes, because ONE gets run-down by
a boat each year, we'll hear the screaming of bass anglers all the way to
Albany.
Think it CAN'T or WON'T happen? You had better "wake-up" and
"smell what is being shoveled"!!
__________________
Safe boatin', good fishin',
keep your net wet and...
"Tight Lines"
Posted
by ttony_5 on 2002 AM:
what's the big deal
Guys:
If they outlaw lead, it'll just be replaced by another metal.
Big deal, we all spend way too much money on unneccessary
tackle each year so from now on we just buy new weights and jigheads.
There, now I feel better.
__________________
Tony Fiorino
Proud Chairman of Team Skeeter - Somers Chapter (a
fictional organization, please stop sending in applications)
Posted
by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Tony the point is that
2.00 jig you buy from me will have to be 4.99 because it has to be made out of
bismuth. or 6.99 because tungsten was used. If a bait is painted, does that cut down on the possibitilty of pollution??? I only use lead in jigs and spinnerbaits. I've switched all of my other weight opver to brass, steel etc...not
because I give a crap about loons but because of my own concerns. Like I said
before, if some bird is stupid enough to snack on a flipping jig and it
croaks...survival of the fittest, I guess in 27 years those 22 loons were the
dumbest of the species. That study is horse$hit, next
they'll try to out law cars because deer have a hard time surviving impact....
C'mon this is ridiculous. Now consider this....how the hell would a lead ban be
enforced???? Does the DEC officer have a lead-o-mometer
that can analyze your bait at the scene of will he confiscate your lure for lab
analysis??? This is a joke right??????
__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com
Posted
by rich on 2002 AM:
It sounds reasonable enough.I'm sure that there are alternatives,maybe
brass.All that lead on the bottom of our waters isn't
doing anyone any good.Plus another way to show that
we are willing to adapt to improve the environment. rich
Posted
by Hawgwalker on 2002 PM:
Brass contains zinc which
is as deadly to loons as lead.
Posted
by rich on 2002 PM:
Good point,I didn't realize that. Look at it from another angle.If I could have all the lead back that I would have
left on the bottom over the years,it probably would
have to be several pounds,maybe even 10. Multiply by
anglers over the last 50 years or so,and
it's more than just a few split shots. There has to be something better. rich
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
I think Northern Bass
supply sells Brass as a safe alternative to Lead,will check it out.
Posted
by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Guys, we can't win here
because brass contains traces of lead, zinc and tungsten are also toxic. Steel
is larger in mass and bismuth is so expensive. Although it is a good idea to
switch to safe reasonable alternatives...what are they??? And I'm not buying
the fact that every lake bottom is littered with lead. Surely there are some
lead weights around but I can't see a lead gravel bar that is leaching out
toxic elements and is effecting any body of water. How
about drill small holes in pebbles and using them as weights??? The point of
this thread is that the Senators who vote on this bill will read that 21% of
loons in the study died of lead related poisoning.....they will not see that
this study took place over many years and that the true number of fatalities
was 22 over a 27yr period......to me that is not a real problem as more are
probably run over by bass boats. I for one have fished extensively in my days
I've had season where I was out every legal day and although I've broken baits
off, I will say my lead loss is minimal. Rich 10lbs of lead is a lot of lead.
__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com
Posted
by bink on 2002 PM:
GEEZ what next EW are you
saying ban all Bass Boats!LOL
Posted
by bobn on 2002 PM:
the banning of lead
the problem is called
"the silent majority"-the silent majority are people like us who let
crap like this happen-these legislators are elected officials--they are voted
into office--they must occasionally be reminded of that fact--the noisy
minority always seems to make the headlines---you have to contact your
legislators and let them know how you feel and that you vote--you can't wait
and "let george do it"--forget about these
so called studies and experts--these reports can be slanted to suit anyones needs-i find it hard to
believe that that much lead is lost--everyone has breakoffs
but i don't see myself or fellow anglers as the cause
of the extinction of a species of bird!--how about we worry about the lead in
the soldered joints in all the nations water supply lines instead of the loons-bobn
Posted
by rich on 2002 PM:
Earthworm,I understand your dilemma, and the hardship it would bring. My only
point is that lead is toxic,and a replacement should
be found.I used to work at RSR in middletown
years ago,so I have a good idea what size 10 lbs of
lead would be,and it would be a little bigger than a
balled up fist.Over the last 30 years or so,I may have left that much,maybe
a little less.I think that we would be wise to read
the writing on the wall, and regardless of what happens with this bill, be able
to adapt to a lot of changes that are coming. Hell, if you come up with
something you'd be in on the ground floor. rich
Posted
by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
I'm dissapointed
in its possible intro, but I don't think it will hurt me at all. 30 yrs is a
long time!!!
__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com
Posted
by Scott E. on 2002 AM:
Well
there is a great place to work Rich....NOT!!!
Rich,
Sorry about that, just know to many of the horror stories from Revere Smelting
and have known people who have worked there as well as I had some job offers.
How's your lead level by the way.
I do have to agree though loosing 10 pounds of lead is a lot and in 30+ years
of fishing I don't think I or anyone else here has lost that much in a lake,
just break it down.
160 peices @ 1 ounce sinkers=10 pounds
320 peices @ 1/2 ounce sinkers=10 pounds
640 peices @ 1/4 ounce sinkers=10 pounds*
1280 peices @ 1/8 ounce sinkers=10 pounds*
I used 1 ounce because that would be about the maximum size sinker most
freshwater fishermen would use if needed and if you polled most people here you
would find 1/8 and 1/4 ounce to be the most popular size. If I combined
saltwater, freshwater and hunting together then I would have to say easily I
have lost 10+ pounds of lead.
I think everyone is making more out of this than needs be, ancient Egyptian
used lead for many purposes including eating utensils, many places in Rome and
the vatican still use lead piping that has been there
since the days of Caesar still with the original Roman writings on it, for
those of you that live in houses that may be 50 or more years old you may have
lead soldered pipes, we all still survive.
Lead does not break down or oxidize like steel, lead only oxidizes when an acid
or an alkali is added to it or in water with a Ph higher than 8.5 or lower than
6.5, water in our lakes is a neutral with a Ph usually between 7 & 7.5, is
lead a poison? Of course it is I am not stating it isn't but so are mercury and
cadmium so think about this, how many tons of rechargable
cadmium batteries or mercury thermometers and electrical swithches
are thrown out in
New health warnings have been placed on eating fish lately due to heavy metal
poisoning and such, how far do we take the bans on things harmful to us and the
environment. Please don't take me wrong I have rallied
for a cleaner environment probably more than most here but when less than 1
bird a year over a 27 year period dies because of lead poisoning well than
maybe we should ban a whole list of other things, like rat poison, I have seen
three hawks dies in the past 5 years after eating a rodent that ate rat poison,
and I bet this happens more often across the USA on a weekly basis and a lot
more die a year, than 22 in 27 year time period.
I will say it again, it is the first attack on the
rights of NY fishermen!!!
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the
devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted
by rich on 2002 AM:
Don't want to draw it
out, so this will be the last from me.I would say my
first 20 years was primarily bait fishing. I have lost scads of 1/2 oz sinkers
in the
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