Posted by Hooked Solid on 2002 PM:
Backwinding or backreeling..
Has anyone ever employed the tactic of backreeling when fighting a fish,I would think if you had a decent drag system on your reel set correctly and good line you wouldn't need to do this?I recently read two articles on this,one guy swears by it , the other totally against it.Am I missing out on something or not...><>...HS
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Posted by Bassin Dude on 2002 PM:
The problem with a fish
taking out drag is that you have little control of where the fish goes. A big
fish can pull drag and get into gnarly cover and there is little you can do
about it. When you backreel, you give the fish just enough to relax the load on
the line and rod but not so much that the fish gets up into the gnarly cover
which of course increases your chance of losing the fish.
Tony
Posted by Dean on 2002 PM:
I think it's all in your last sentence HS. You probably either like it or don't. I've tried it a few times, but I'm not a big fan. I feel like it is easier to have the drag set and use your rod to keep them out of cover.
Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:
if a fish exerts 9lbs on a 10 lb line and the drag works efficiently, in theory the fish will tire before the line breaks and you can continue the fight until fish is boated--i under line the word "theory" and allege you have a good drag system--when back reeling, can you really tell when you are near the breaking point of the line and control the run as efficiently?- if using a quality reel why bother?when fishing in salt water or for big game this strategy is out of the question--why not rely on your equipment to do what it is supposed to do?-bobn----ps --i understand we are talking about bass--but your drag should be as good for 10 yards as it is for 100 yards
Posted by Bassin Dude on 2002 PM:
Bobn, I think you missed
the point of my post. While I agree with the theory of what you said, you don't
seem to take into account the fact that a fish can put nine pounds of pressure
on ten pound line yet pull that line into brush which causes the line to break.
I don't advocate that everyone should backreel - I do and it when conditions
dictate that I should and it works for me. If you chose not too that's fine
too.
The original poster stated that he didn't understand the reasoning behind backreeling
and I believe I answered his question.
Tony
Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:
bassin'--not to appear argumentative--but no matter how you exert 9lbs of pressure on a line--isn't it the same--you back reel an stop the fish from getting into the weeds utilizing 9 lbs--would not the drag do the same thing if set properly?-lets just say it's a matter of opinion and circumstance--bobn
Posted by Bassin Dude on 2002 PM:
To answer your question,
no it's not the same. When you backreel, you selectively release line to the
fish while using the rod to steer the fish away from the gnarly cover. If the
fish gets into bad enough cover, it could break 30lb line while only pulling at
what you might measure to be 1 or 2 lbs or pressure.
Backreeling is not easy nor, as I stated, not for everyone. I started doing it
years ago when I saw Roland Martin explain it on one of his shows. Since then,
I've seen Shaw Grigsby, Kevin Van Dam, Larry Nixon and countless other pro's do
it too. It takes practice to do properly and let me reiterate that it is a
technique used to keep the fish away from where you don't want it to go but is
not needed to be done at all times. For example, if you're fishing open water
then you don't need to do it.
Tony
Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:
Backreeling arguments,
like Scents, always brings out the worst for some reason! LOL!
My take on Backreeling, is that most of the very best fishermen I have known,
use it.....I dont, I guess you can figure where that puts me on the hierarchy!
LOL! I have always been comfortable with Drag, and will continue, but backreeling
gives you more control over what is happening...... JOHN G
Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:
I agree With BD on this one. I feel like I am in much more control when playing a fish while backreeling. I actually will look where the anti reverse lever is mounted when I buy a new spinning reel so I can easily flip it when I have a fish on. I can see where it wouldn't be for everyone. I have seen drags stick and bigfish lost and friends look at me saying "I tested the drag just 5 minutes ago" as the Bass waves Adios Amigo....
Posted by Jameson on 2002 PM:
If your drag is sticking
that is YOUR FAULT. First for buying a reel with a crappy drag when their are
countless options of awesome drag reels, those are available for near $50 now.
Second you are poorly maintaining your reel. The drag must periodically be
cleaned, and sometimes oiled/greased. My guess, your buddies (or you) are using
wd-40 somewhere on your reels, avoid this stuff like the plague.
It is well marketed water displacing garbage that will turn brownish after
sprayed a few times and let dry (WD-40 admits this on their website). It also
gums up somewhat, and will cause a drag to do very weird things. Sometimes a
little will creep around top and nestle into the felt washer up top, just a
touch can cause wrondoing. I have a few links to knowledgeable arguments about
this product. Not saying it won't fix a squeak, just that you should use a
product developed specifically for what you intend to use it on. And nowadays
(not 30 years ago DG) there are hundreds of products more susitable, and
cheaper, than wd-40 for fishing applications.
JC
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...&highlight=wd40
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums...ight=lubricants
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread...&highlight=wd40
Those are some threads on much better lubricants from people who KNOW whats up.
JC
Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:
Jameson,
Are you saying drags on reels that cost $50.00 and up and are "well
maintained" will never behave irratically? If you are, I ain't buyin it. I
agree with what you said about proper maint. but to say that they would never
fail is stretching it..
Posted by JPBass on 2002 AM:
back reeling
No, you don't NEED to do it. But it is kinda fun!
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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
Either you like it or you hate it pretty much sums it up. JP, I don't agree with your statement about NEVER needing to do it. I fish a ton of UL stuff and catch some very big fish on it, it has been intrumental for me to land fish that far outweighed the line I was using. Bassin' Dude, don't sell yourself short, I've used it out on a boat and I'll tell you it was absolutely the reason I caught a few of the fish I've caught. It isn't just for nasty places, in fact it is more suited to open water so a fish can run a little without fear of breaking him off. I actually clamp my drag down very hard in heavy cover because I don't want that fish to run into the sticks and get a chance to part my line. Also a p[oint nobody mentioned, when you exert force against a fish(fighting the fish) that bass is trying to escape. It naturally heads for cover. When you backreel, you have less pressure on the fish and at times the fish can swin freely. It may not head for cover if it does not feel the constant pressure. Although the fish is swimming more freely than if I had the drag cranked down, I feel that I can control the fish easier. That may sound strange but that fish may tire itself out or not run as far simply swimming free. You shouldn't trust any drag you use. They are mechanical and at times are subject to failure. We all know those times occur when you need it to work the most.
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Posted by bobn on 2002 AM:
i guess all drags are not created equal--you have no choice with a baitcaster--it's drag or free spool as far as i know--bobn
Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:
You could roast your thumb freespooling but for baitcaster, I feel that most guys are using heavier line anyway do backreeling isn't nec.
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Posted by Sean Heitman on 2002 AM:
No drag is created equal
is SO true!! The drag is probably THE most important aspect of a reel when
fishing light line for big fish.
Smoothness bieng the key.
Back reeling will give the fish a chance to rest. A very slight chance but it
is happening.
I happen to have the IGFA yearbook for 2001 infront of me and did a little
checking.
The world record Tarpon n 2lb line is 106lbs!! That feat takes expirience,
patience and steady pressure. The kind of steady pressure you cannot give with
back reeling.
Granted..this fish was probably in open water with no obvious cover, but, the
fish not only jumps but also heads for deeper water. I have seen ocean fish
break off from heading into deep water from shallow when the line is dragged
across the apex of the break line.
Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:
quote:
Originally
posted by Sean Heitman
The world record Tarpon n 2lb line is 106lbs!! That feat takes expirience,
patience and steady pressure..
CRIPES! I don't think that record is gonna be beat any time
soon... 
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Posted by Greg Hill on 2002 PM:
I lost a huge largemouth because of a poorly maintained drag when I was 18 old years on a mitchel 300.It was my fault for not taking care of the drag properly.I havent had a problem since with any reel or any size fish be it a 20# carp on 8# test or a 5# rainbow on 4# test.I caught a smallmouth last year that was a good 4-1/2 lbs in heavy current on 10# test xl and I had nary a problem.I back the drag off after I'm finished, every time, and I tighten the drag all the way every time(except with fireline) I start.If I need to give a fish line I can back the drag off to the point where line is taken by the fish.If I think I have to move a fish after that to keep him from getting me into trouble,I'll tighten down again and move him away from it,before giving him line again,if needed.When I initially tighten the drag to start the day,I'll back it off to make sure its not sticking and once I'm confident eveything is everything ,I tighten it again and forget about it.I have never had a fish that was still green make that last lunge againt a poorly set drag and break off.I know guys who are better than I'll ever be, who insist that backreeling is the safest way to play a fish.Its not that I dont believe them,but that I have never had the need to improve the way I go about playing a fish.I'm fairly confident however, that having replied to this thread I will break off a 5#er at the boat in the next week or so,because of poor drag perfomance.In the meantime,I aint fixing what aint broke.
Posted by joe pido on 2002 PM:
Drag?..whats that? LOL. I
backreel on spinning gear, I handpull line on baitcasting. Works for me. I want
that drag set tight so that I get maximum power on the hook set. The last time
I tried fiddling around with the drag in the heat of battle lost me a good 5 lber.
Never again....
Joe
Posted by Jameson on 2002 PM:
quote:
The world record Tarpon n 2lb line is 106lbs!! That feat takes expirience, patience and steady pressure. The kind of steady pressure
That is totally different than bass fishing. Anyone could catch a tarpon on a
Penn Intenational 2 speed 12# class reel (or equivalent) with 1000 yards
(probably more) of 2# line. Here I checked it out boys.
From the IGFA WEBSITE:
--------------------------------------
RULES FOR FISHING IN FRESH AND SALT WATER
Equipment Regulations
A. LINE
1. Monofilament, multifilament, and lead core multifilament lines may be used.
For line classes,
see World Record Requirements.
2. Wire lines are prohibited.
B. LINE BACKING
1. Backing not attached to the fishing line is permissible with no restrictions
as to size or material.
2. If the fishing line is attached to the backing, the catch shall be
classified under the heavier of the
two lines. The backing may not exceed the 130 lb (60 kg) line class and must be
of a type of line
approved for use in these angling rules.
C. DOUBLE LINE
The use of a double line is not required. If one is used, it must meet the
following specifications:
1. A double line must consist of the actual line used to catch the fish.
2. Double lines are measured from the start of the knot, braid, roll or splice
making the double to the farthermost end of the knot, splice, snap, swivel or
other device used for securing the trace, leader, lure or hook to the double
line.
Saltwater species: In all line classes up to and including 20 lb (10 kg), the
double line shall be limited to 15 feet (4.57 meters). The combined length of
the double line and leader shall not exceed 20
feet (6.1 meters).
The double line on all classes of tackle over 20 lb (10 kg) shall be limited to
30 feet (9.14 meters).
The combined length of the double line and leader shall not exceed 40 feet
(12.19 meters).
Freshwater species: The double line on all classes of tackle shall not exceed 6
feet (1.82 meters). The combined length of the double line and the leader shall
not exceed 10 feet (3.04 meters).
D. LEADER
The use of a leader is not required. If one is used, it must meet the following
specifications:
The length of the leader is the overall length including any lure, hook
arrangement or other device.
The leader must be connected to the line with a snap, knot, splice, swivel or
other device. Holding devices are prohibited. There are no regulations
regarding the material or strength of the leader.
Saltwater species: In all line classes up to and including 20 lb (10 kg), the
leader shall be limited to 15 feet (4.57 meters). The combined length of the
double line and leader shall not exceed 20 feet (6.1 meters).
The leader on all classes of tackle over 20 lb (10 kg) shall be limited to 30
feet (9.14 meters). The combined length of the double line and leader shall be
limited to 40 feet (12.19 meters).
Freshwater species: The leader on all classes of tackle shall be limited to 6
feet (1.82 meters). The combined length of the double line and leader shall not
exceed 10 feet (3.04 meters).
------------------------------------------------
So lets be realistic now. With these requirements I can have UNLIMITED amounts
of line on my reel, 2# for this arguments sake. Then bimini-knot 10' of double
line. Thats 4# line when we get her in close. Heck 10' of wire/400# mono/fluoro
WHATEVER we wanted (theoretically this stuff PROBABLY wouldnt work with tarpon,
maybe live-lining) cause you are limited to 20 total feet on that fishing under
20# class lines.
Basically your biggest problem would be in close (as with any big fish), and
setting the hook. Maybe a circle would work, or let the thing swallow a regular
J hook and work on it like that. Remember I work on a charter boat whose
captain forces us to have his employers equipment meet IGFA requirements
offshore. I HATE doing wind-on leaders and stuff liek that but it works, and
makes for a more effective fishing outing.
This got a little off topic but you guys can't compare these different types of
fishing like you do without really thinking about it. I am not even mentioning
that the guys fishing for these records (fish like that on 2# line dont happen
by accident, people gear up specifically to do this and spend YEARS of their
lives in pursuit of it. Look at all the open world records waiting for women
fly-fishers in most coastal species). Anyway, you can chase the damn thing with
a boat that can cruise at or above 30 knots. SO no tarpon is outrunning you
line-wise, and probably will never get more than 200 yards away. You can catch
a 50# yellowfin tuna or bigger on light line, but it stops being fun. Light
tackle isn't more sporty, it's easier to fish it, it weighs less. Real
fisherman fish with suitable tackle for the situation. Good luck on your
season.
JC
Posted by Jameson on 2002 PM:
Oh BTW, the first step in
drag maintenance, as mentioned above by two nice fellows; back off at the end
of every trip. I back off the drags when I'm done, and test the drag with a
hand-pull before throwing a cast. Usually do this while I'm walking to the next
spot.
As for havign a drag fail on me. As I said in other posts only poorly designed
or poorly maintained drags will fail. You must replace parts that seem worn, don;t
use those 10 year old drag washers in your spinner anymore e.t.c. I use a light
oil in the drags as well which most caution against. The way I see it is that
my drag STARTUP is butter smooth, no hesitation whatsoever. This is paramount
if you want to use lighter lines effectively.
As for $60 reels that last, take for instance the tica camry 3500. With
frequent maintenance ( breakdown 10 trips (broke down to oil main bearing), oil
bearings/roller bearing every 3 trips) I have caught well over 300 striped bass
on this one reel, using braided line 100% of the time, and never once did the
drag hesitate. Numbers: Largest 48" 42#, over a dozen 20# fish, 2 30#
class fish, and countless fish in the teens to probably 3-4# being the
smallest. That is all on one 3500 tica camry that I bought for $55+ Shipping.
So if that isn't a test for a reel IN SALTWATER then I dunno what your doing to
em. Maybe they are sitting in your garage too long and not getting any fishies
to spin them round.
I also use a 3000 size tica in FW and this has performed well with light line.
The 3500 is a bit bigger and more capacity, great reels guys check em. Good
luck.
Posted by Ken L on 2002 PM:
FWIW, I first read about backreeling in one of the first issues of The InFisherman back in the early 70's. I have locked down the drag on all my spinning reels ever since. It seems to me that the drag has a single response to a single condition. In real life there's lots of other factors besides how hard a fish is pulling and I want to be able to respond as I see as approppriate. i want as much control as possible.
__________________
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Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:
I gotta believe the best
way to do it, is the way you have always done it, which ever it is.
Most of my smallie fishing is on 8 lb test with a Shimano Solstace 2000 ($49)
spinning reel. I have caught countless 4 to 5 1/2 pound smallies on Lakes Erie and Ontario,
the Niagara River, the St. Lawrence and this year
on Conesus. Certainly 8 lb test can handle these fish quite nicely, but I have
never once backreeled. I wouldn't even know how, and would probably loose a ton
of fish if I tried.
The fish I have broke off in the past were mainly zebra mussle related, and
would have broke off anyway.
I think the key to successful "drag fishing" is knowing when to drop
the rod tip to let the pressure off and when to carefully turn the fish by
raising the rod tip back up.
If you are able to master one or the other, you shouldn't have a problem.
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Posted by patx on 2002 AM:
Drags?...........I dont
know.....
Mike and I have caught some pretty big smallmouth this past year on 4lb line,
and I can tell you that backreeling is the way to go when you are fighting one
of those frieght trains. I just feel like you have much more control of the
situation. I dont have to worry about weeds here on Maho, but the idea of
giving that fish just a little more play, by turning the reel handle backwards
has saved the day for me a few times.
As for drags......whats a drag? I take a pair of needlenose pliers and crank
that sucker beyond tight on both my spinning and baitcasting reels. If a big
fish runs on baitcasting gear, I just push the button and thumb the line off of
the reel. Biggest reason for cranking down that drag is on the hookset. I have
found that when you are using a drag, it gives somewhat on the hookset, not
enabling you to get a good bite into the fish. For me, I like to have NO drag
on the hookset (more important on spinning), then backreel once the fight
begins. Just works for me - Im sure its all what you get used to.
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