Posted by MikeH on 2003 PM:

Posted by MikeH on 2003 PM:

"Slider" fishing

I have the utmost respect for all of you on these boards,who in 1 year,got me so into bass fishing,that I actually count the days to the season starting ( I never felt this way in almost 35 years of saltwater fishing)
I have print outs on all the great posts by Travis and earthworm,who overflow with knowledge of this great sport.
My question..........those of you who spend any time slider fishing, do you strictly follow Charlie Brewers philosophy,or have you found slight changes to be beneficial to you?
I'd be particularly interested in the tackle you use.
With the various outdoor shows I plan on attending,I would like to go armed with knowledge,rather than get ripped off by an
eager salesman. Thank you.

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

Brewer method

I have been fishing the basic Brewer method since before the late Charlie Brewer wrote his book in the early 70's. I latched onto some early word of mouth and was intrigued.
In truth,the Brewer method is less a method than a state of mind.
It is adaptable to many species though particularly effective on Smallmouth bass.
Probably 90% of my lifetime catch of quality smallies have been taken with the Brewer philosophy.
No special tackle is needed and i strongly advise AGAINST the 4-5 foot rods he advocated. Certainly you need not remove your reel bail though some still favor that approach.
Since most baits fished "Brewer" will be 4 inch worms, small grubs and hair jigs in the 1/16 to 3/16 range using 4-8 lb line,your tackle choices are simple.
A 6.5 ft light action graphite spinning rod probably rated 1/8 to 3/8 is a good choice in many brands. If in doubt go lighter on the rating. Don't go shorter.
A 2000 class reel is an excellent choice. Avoid the 1000 class toys.
You probably already have the rig you need.
If you have not read Brewers book i'd encourage you to do so.
I can talk Brewer all day ,so while i have 40 inches of snow on the ground feel free to ask questions if this post is unclear.
dick.

Posted by Gregg on 2003 PM:

quote:

Avoid the 1000 class toys

Mr. Jig may I ask why you feel that way about 1000 class reels? I have a Stradic 1000 that I use for my brewers and think it works fine.

__________________
Gregg

Posted by bass 64 on 2003 PM:

Gregg

I don't know if this is Mr.Jig's explanation but I have found that the 1000 and the 2000 series are so similar in size, the minimal extra weight and more line capacity tips in favor of the 2000.(especially if you hook into a hog) - Joe

__________________
When in doubt, Texas rig........or fish the outgoing tide!

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 PM:

I also wait for the explanation: I use the 1000 and have no problem whatsoever reeling in the fish, regardless of size.... JOHN G

__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one another"
---------------------------------
> email - DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
---------------------------------
Quote: "coming soon"
---------------------------------

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

Toy reels.

John, i trust your comment " I have no problem whatsoever reeling in fish" was intended in jest ?

In my experience , the reels we think of as 1000 class reels have significantly smaller diameter spools than those we think of as 2000 class.
Small diameter spools cast less well, produce tighter coils which are tangle prone, are quickly reduced to less than efficient capacity by a few breakoffs and at equal gear ratio retrieve line slower than the larger spool reel.
These problems are exascerbated by cold weather/water. Cold water periods are when the Brewer approach is most fruitful.
For many years i thought i was the cat's meow using a little Lews 1 with a 1.5 dia.spool.
When i stepped up in reel size to get a bit more weight at the hand voila! the larger reel had a 1 7/8 dia spool.....BIG difference in performance.
I noticed an immediate improvement in the properties i have enumerated.
I too was happy with my little reel, even landed some pike approaching 20 lbs with it.
When i went to the larger reel i realized i hadn't known any better.
I have no horse in this race. Mike H wanted to know what tackle board members used. My answer reflects my experience.
dick.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2003 AM:

Mike, thanks for the compliment. I have been a Slider guy for the better part of 15 years. I actually learned it from a guide and friend and only recently read the bokk and saw the video all the way through. I started throwing it on a Tenn handles spinning rod with a taped on reel. I have since switched to a screw down reel seat. I agree with Dick that the short rods are absolutley not the best option. I have had success with a 5-6 model and a 6 ft model. I refuse to remove my bails on my Stradics. There is only minute difference between the 1000 and 2000 Stradic. Spool diameter is minimally different but I'm not sure Dick meant those reels in particular. I mechanically flip the bail over so I eliminate loops and twist by doing so. I now am sold on the effectiveness of the newer Pro Slider heads that feature needle point Mustad hooks. These are much more durable and I fell penetrate with more ease than the stanbdard hooks. I use both the Slider worms and a handpoured version that I make myself. John G got me throwing the Grub a few years ago with success but I only do it on occasion. I pretty much fish the technique the same way Charlie tells it. I have used the Slider philosophy as a building block to my own light tackle approach. One only needs to dedicate the time to it, and the dedication to do it right to achieve the numbers that are reported. I am considering penning an abreviated artcle about Slider fishing since John won't let me write my Drop Shot article until after the seminar. We'll see.

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by Gregg on 2003 AM:

quote:

I have no horse in this race

Never felt you did, the question was sincere and your answer was about what I thought it would be. I like Mr. Brewers baits and concept but never bought in to his choice of rod and felt I was stepping up enough as I see you did at first (Lews 1). Still like my setup but you know sometime during the up coming season will give it a try on a 2000 setup.

__________________
Gregg

Posted by JPBass on 2003 AM:

Re: "Slider" fishing

quote:

Originally posted by MikeH

My question..........those of you who spend any time slider fishing, do you strictly follow Charlie Brewers philosophy,or have you found slight changes to be beneficial to you?

Never read the book, never saw the video.

I've been throwing a slider worm on and off for about 12 years. I cast it out, let it sink, and retrieve it slowly or just bounce it a little. Seems to work well for a non-expert like myself.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

now JPBass.....

JP... NONE of us here are experts.

Still there is a lot more to the Brewer approach than you may realize .
You say your approach "works for me" how much better might the entire concept work for you?
Why not read the book and see if you'ld like to broaden your light tackle understanding?
Couldn't hurt eh?
In my opinion the tape is not worth buying but worth viewing.
On the other hand i re-read the book every few years and few consider me stupid.
Give it a shot!
dick.

Posted by JPBass on 2003 AM:

No denials Mr. Jig. There's certainly room for improvement on my part. And I will get around to that book........Maybe this winter.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by Steve_IA on 2003 AM:

I don't find myself disagreeing with EW often, but, on preference between the original slider and the new pro series I do. I much prefer the original light wire 2/0 hook jig when slider fishing. Less weight and less resistance when setting the hook. My choice of gear more closely resembles Dick's... 6'2" to 6'6" graphite rod with 2000 size spinning reel, however, I prefer a 6lb test superline for my "string". When fishing around wood or rock cover I tie a 3' mono leader to increase abrasion resistance and to be able to break off closer to the jig. The mono will also slow the jig drop rate. Steve_IA

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Attn: Gregg.

If by chance you need to buy a 2000 reel for slider fishing may i suggest you consider the Diawa regal z 1500. Under $50
I have used this reel hard for 2 years and i consider it more fishable than 2000 class Shimanos.
The anti reverse lever is small but as i don't use anti reverse i don't find that to be a negative.
Big spool 1 7/8 dia on a small smoothly geared body. Load with 6.9 Tectan and you should be pleased.
Worth a look.
dick

Posted by Bass Rat on 2003 AM:

I can attest that the Diawa Regal Z is a superior reel for the money. I have 8 of these reels and use them hard. I have replaced most of my higher priced reels with this model. I can'y say enough about this reel.

__________________
Is it Spring Yet?

Posted by JPBass on 2003 AM:

Nick & Dick....I have a couple of the older Regal Zs (before the continuous anti reverse) Have used them in saltwater applications with the drag screaming.....
No problemo!!

Certainly a good deal for 50 bucks.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by earthworm77 on 2003 AM:

Steve, the wire on the new head is only slightly larger in diameter compared to the old heads. The needle point more than makes up for this as it is a sharper hook than the standard. Once you get past that needle point, the difference in wire gauge is moot.

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by Gregg on 2003 PM:

quote:

If by chance you need to buy a 2000 reel for slider fishing may i suggest you consider the Diawa regal z 1500. Under $50

Already own one

Not for me but to enlighten our Friend Mike who asked the question when do you prefer the 4" worm over the 3" grub or visa versa? Is it a seasonal thing, conditions, or some other element, or maybe none ( a swimming piece of plastic is a swimming piece of plastic)

__________________
Gregg

Posted by Woody on 2003 PM:

Mike

All of this slider bashing and prior Negative responses....
Spend a day on the water with a couple of folks you met.
Each of them has a little slider info they can share
Buy and Read the BOOK....Develop the style and apply.
Simple...Don't get caught up in the hype and need to manipulate heads.
The technique is SIMPLE and RELAXING...
An EXCELLENT technique to catch fish....One of several

Look forward to the Spring and fishing with you again.
You have my number....
Woody

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

new brewer head.

A few problems with the new "classic" spider head.
The hook may be sharper but does not set more easily as it is 3/0 rather than 2/0
The larger hook is more difficult to spring in order to unsnag it.
The 3/0 is resistant to kirbing and is larger than needed for the baits i use on a spider head. When texposed and tucked, the bait rides at a less natural angle due to the greater gap. As i always use the smallest , thinnest hook i can get away with i will stick to the older 2/0 spider.
dick.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2003 AM:

I'm still sticking with them Dick

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2003 AM:

i would like to add that when my father started me bass fishing, at a very young age, it was the slider i used. even at 4, i was able to catch bass on these lures(i already had 2 years of fishing under my belt at that age). i can remember throwing those little worms, with the t-rigged jig head to the rock/nut on the mohawk and upper hudson. First few bigger bass i ever caught were on sliders. They are great lures. i even still have the original box around somewhere, but it is filled with tubes now.

i am definetly going to give them a try again this year, because they always seemed to catch bass - almost like a tube!

Lance

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Brewer/tubes.

Good morning Lance.
It is my experience that the slider approach will outfish tubes in the early pre-spawn in the Hudson/Mohawk and most other places .
A big exception would be northern Champlain,Erie and perhaps on the Finger Lakes.
Dont limit yourself to the 4 inch worm as the 3 inch bass grub is often a better choice.
dick.

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Gregg/Mike

"Not for me but to enlighten our Friend Mike who asked the question when do you prefer the 4" worm over the 3" grub or visa versa? Is it a seasonal thing, conditions, or some other element, or maybe none ( a swimming piece of plastic is a swimming piece of plastic)"

To a considerable degree swimming plastic is swimming plastic.
The retrieve variations Brewer describes ARE more important than the bait.
This PRESUMES of course that the angler is swimming the bait in the right place!

My approach,much simplified, is as follows:
At ice out to low 50's water temp, i swim a dark Brewer 3 inch bass grub above the bottom (bottom 1/3 of column but not on the bottom). I NEVER leave an area without swimming a Phil's hair as an alternate offering.
An exception to the lower 1/3 zone would be after a big Canadian high with NW winds and cobalt skies.
Then i slide high (top 1/3 of column) a 4 inch brewer worm shortened to 3-3.5 inches.
I prefer strawberry or strawberry glitter in this presentation.
As water temps get into low 50 s i offer a tube and expect hits on a spiral drop. Tube must be internally weighted.
Once i get those hits on the drop, i rarely use the slider in any form. I DO also use my ugly bug which i fish as a drop bait as an alternate to the tube.
After the spawn (which i avoid) i often slide the Brewer 4 inch worm experimenting with retrieve types. Good summer presentation.
Mixed into my Brewering is of course the Senko which is another subject.

In several archives i suspect one could find a lot of my Brewer dope which i posted at length back 3-4 years ago.
dick.

Posted by Scott C on 2003 AM:

Mr Jig,
This is good solid info. As well as the other inputs from all on this thread.

Thanks all.

SC

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by TVal on 2003 PM:

Time to Learn

My Brewers book & video arrived today, so a few days from now I'll hopefully have some idea of what you are all talking about.
But already have a great start from the post by Mr. Jig, EW,
JP. Greg, Woody and everyone else. We are talking about "brewing tea" right?
Tim

__________________
No phone, no fax, just fishing.

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2003 PM:

wow, what a great tip. 3" grub on a slider head. DAMMNIT why didnt i think of it earlier.

i am definetly going to be trying that. once open water rolls around. may even apply to walleyes in the weeds. hmmmmm....

maybe i can even rig a tube on a slider head....lol

thanks dick.

all this ice fishing is going to my head.

Lance

Posted by bass 64 on 2003 PM:

Tval

How long did it take you to get the book and the video? I ordered two days ago.

__________________
When in doubt, Texas rig........or fish the outgoing tide!

Posted by TVal on 2003 AM:

BASS64
Think it took about 5 days from when I ordered, via credit card. Had hoped to start reading tonight, but had to do a l
kitchen layout on CAD for a friend. Hope those grubs make good tea
Tim

__________________
No phone, no fax, just fishing.

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:

Looks like we have quite a few Brewer convertees coming along the pike......you guys will NOT be disappointed when you apply it next season.....

I am very familiar with all of Mr Jigs brewer exploits and what he has found to be very effective in his area....

however, down here I have found the brewers grub to be most effective when the water is OVER 50, just my observation...I will use tubes before that....I have found what he says with the hair jigs in that colder water.....

this year I will have to try brewers more in that colder period and see if I can get it working, however, part of the problem is that when something else is working so well, you hate to leave it and the tubes have been killers for us down here after ice out the last couple of years. In addition to that, I have had the most success fishing the tubes right on the bottom and rather agressively at that...several of my buddies have seen what I am talking about....

JOHN G

Posted by postcard on 2003 AM:

I've never used a slider jighead , but the presentation-concept sounds like the one I've been using for many years.
I've used 3-4" grubs and straight worms, with 8# test, on ball-head jigs and usually swim the bait pretty much like Dick mentioned. In fact, 85% of my fishing is done this way to find fish in open water or in sparse vegetation.

Frank

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Differences.

John.
In addition to other differences we can both think of, i warrant that the bulk of your catch is largemouths. Poor devil.
dick.

Posted by theole34 on 2003 AM:

dick,
do you use the slider fishing tech. for river fishing? i like Kalin grubs on Arkie heads of different weights, and wonder if you use the same principles.

i was bitten by the River Smaillie bug last july, and will be spending some days on deleware and susky this year.

any differences in how you fish river to lake, or just follow the same idea focusing on finding the right chunk of water column, and swimming?

thanks.
robbie

__________________
www.Theole34.com
We're talking about "Spring" fishing...... right?

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

Sorry Theole

I composed a thoughtful answer between the steps in preparing a nice Paella for my friends tonight... but apparently failed to post it! It is GONE.
I will try to put it together again tomorrow.
dick.

Posted by Bassin Dude on 2003 PM:

Dick,

You inadvertently posted your answer to Robbie in "Places to fish" on the "Bass Angling Poll" thread.

__________________
Tony

"As my own fishing seasons wind down to a precious few, it's nice to know I'll be there, be there as long as I can. As long as I can bait a hook and make a cast, as long as I am living, I intend to be fishing."

-Ron Schara

Posted by JPBass on 2003 PM:

Re: Sorry Theole

quote:

Originally posted by mr jig
I composed a thoughtful answer between the steps in preparing a nice Paella for my friends tonight... but apparently failed to post it! It is GONE.
I will try to put it together again tomorrow.
dick.

Here it be

Same Principle?
Theole.
As you are coming into your river fishing period i'm largely out of mine....

Your river fishing will be favorably influenced if you develop your Brewer skills but River fishing is DOMINATED by CURRENT including speed volume breaks seams etc. The fish are agressive by necessity and not selective.The challenge is in dealing with water levels, volume, discoloration etc.

Clearly you must master current FIRST and presentation techniques must conform to that current.

The nuances of the Brewer technique were developed for lakes and revolve first around structure (sm) 2 nd around cover (lm) water column and retrieve type and speed, which are strongly influenced by seasonl patterns and weather influences.
Lake sm are ideal subjects for the Brewer philosophy because Brewer exploits
structure and appeals almost all the time... even to neutral or negative fish which they are most of the time!
Best.
dick.

P.S. I assume you can tell that's a quote from Mr. Jig and not my words.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

Theole, thanks to Tony i am relocating this.

mr jig
Pro Angler

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Albany NY area
Posts: 245

Seth.
Your post reveals the crux of the problem.
You stated that the season only protects the pre spawn.
That Seth, depends on where in this huge state with vast differences in lake age, one may be.
Pre spawn fishing (without harvest) is not injurious.
Bed fishing is (potentially) harmful in less fertile lakes where smallmouths are marginal and total spawn failure not uncommon.
WE must NOT make management judgements based on our untrained opinions within our limited experience on "our" lakes

Resource management is complicated and best left to experts who must consider the resource first and the opinions and desires of the great unwashed second.
The finger lakes exception and the early season on Erie are examples of the DEC'S willingness to allow latitude where the biological data supports it empirically.
dick.

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

Thank you Tony!

dick.

Posted by JPBass on 2003 PM:

Mr Jig, I think you've still got your posts a little confused??? What exactly is in that Paella you're eating?? LOL

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by mr jig on 2003 PM:

I have tried today to handle at least 30 private fishing e-mails, consulting on an article and a book, and a bunch of messages/subjects on 3 boards AND prepare a big birthday dinner for 8.

I am NOT doing well!
Paella is a magnificent seafood- sausage- chicken dish with saffron rice.
Try it!!
Best dick.

Posted by JPBass on 2003 PM:

Well I hope the article isn't for Penthouse and the book for a church group or you could be in a lot of trouble. LOL

Enjoy the evening!!

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Thanks JP.....

Went to bed at 2-something this am. and i'm up and on the net at 5:30 am.
Paella was magnificent as were the chocolate mousse and Remy Martin with which we arrived at the wee hours....
Not sure i should drive at the moment but it was a grand evening and i know i am alive.....ALIVE!!!!!!
dick.

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:

Dick, last season, at Cross River Reservoir with Vic , we were fishing in late June with the water temperatures hovering in the low sixties and catching endless smallmouths using brewers only.....

however, I will admit, most of the time, I am catching primarily largemouth with it, however please keep in mind that there are a limited number of smallmouth waters in my area to begin with...

JOHN G

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Yes John....

I'm aware that your waters are largely lm waters.
I'm not sure of the significance of your late June experience on Amwalk.
My Brewer reference was for ice out smallies.
Best.
dick.

Posted by TVal on 2003 AM:

Part way there

Well, have watched the Slider video and am half way thru the book. Agree with Miked in NYC that the video could stand some editing. But also enjoyed the "not slick" good old boy style. What I've gotten from the book so far is the relationship between weight, depth and speed of retrieve. Reminds me of when I try to teach someone photography ( before full auto everything ) of the relationship between F-stop, shutter speed and film speed. Adjust one element and it changes the results. My one question is why has almost everyone has abandoned the short rods Charlie advocated? This may have been addressed previously, I just
don't remember the answer. Off to coach some Bball in the rec. league. Hit the book again tonight. Great post guys.
Tim

__________________
No phone, no fax, just fishing.

Posted by mr jig on 2003 AM:

Short Rods.

Most have concluded that the short rods are useless for slider fishing.
I noticed today that Charlie Brewer jr as a guest on Fishing University was slider fishing with a 6 ft Fenwick.
He may be the head of the Brewer company but he feels no obligation to fish those short rods which i think do nothing well.
dick

Posted by JOHN G on 2003 PM:

Tim, the concept of fishing all day very liesurely tied in with using a very light and manageable rod and that is why Charlie pushed it on his video.....most of us have found out that you will handle the fish much better with a longer rod....I however, will not go over 6 feet with Brewers, in fact, I rarely go over 6 feet with anything, I am only 5' 7and half inches and with the exception of 6.5 baitcasters, prefer 6 foot rods..... I have two rods that I use for brewers: both of them are Cabelas tourney trail rods, one is 5' 9'' and the other is 6 feet and both are listed as medium light...

the reason I prefer the Cabelas is that despite their lightness, they are rather strong and not whippy......

you are on the right track though, the relationship of the weight to the speed is very key to the variations of the technique....

in spite of the countless fish I have caught on Brewers, I still believe I have not really begun to tap into the full beauty of this technique and look forward to understanding more about the very relationship you mentioned......

I would REALLY love to be on one of Mr Jigs waters in that ice out period and try Brewers as prescribed by him at that time....Dick, perhaps Gregg and I could journey up there one day with OUR BOAT and just kind of trail behind you and see how we can manage using brewers at that time of the year....Gregg is another heavy Brewer's user as it is definitely his go to confidence bait.....

JOHN G

Posted by Gregg on 2003 PM:

quote:

I would REALLY love to be on one of Mr Jigs waters in that ice out period and try Brewers as prescribed by him at that time....Dick, perhaps Gregg and I could journey up there one day with OUR BOAT and just kind of trail behind you and see how we can manage using brewers at that time of the year.

Can you say camo jon boat and long range binoculars!

__________________
Gregg

Posted by TVal on 2003 AM:

John
You brought up a point I hadn't thought about, or remember being discussed in other post. The relationship to "Fishing" rod length vs body height. I'm 6'4" and feel comfortable with a 7 ft pole. May try a 6"6" with my Stratic to start the Slider technique. Anyone else out there have some feedback on this?
Glad you mentioned Cabellas, this site seems to favor BPS. My first serious gear purchase was a Cabellas combo.
Tim

__________________
No phone, no fax, just fishing.

Posted by Bass Rat on 2003 AM:

Being 5'7" I feel a little uncomfortable with the 7'6" rods. My prefference is 6's & 6 and a halves.

__________________
Is it Spring Yet?

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2003 AM:

i dont know about you guys, but I'm also 5'7", but the shortest rod i use is 6'6" - and that is an UL. i prefer 7' rods for bass fishing - both spinning and casting, and i prefer even longer spinning rods if i can get them in the proper action(see cabela's 7'6" Med.lt. action pro guide spinning rod)

i feel that longer rods allow me to interpret whats going on down there a little better, they allow me to pick more line up, and get harder hooksets, i can manage line better, cast farther, and more accuratly, and finally, when it comes to hooking big fish, long rods make the difference.

just and example - a few years back i was fishing a certain river for smallies, in a area of heavy current, while the river was nearly flooding. i was using a small spinner, 6lb test, and a 7'6" spinning rod. I ended up hooking a huge walleye, that i somehow landed. now, i have alot of experience catching big fish, but i credit alot of landing that particular fish to the control that i had thanks to the long rod. the walleye was 9lbs 10oz, and the river was the susquehenna.

Posted by TVal on 2003 PM:

John, Nick, Bigred.
Is it just chance that you are all 5'-7", or is there a secret sect of NY Bass anglers that meet in secret at the 57 Club? LOL
Tim

__________________
No phone, no fax, just fishing.