Posted by JeffLang BVS on 2002 PM:

Power Pro No More!!!!!

Just Back From Fishing the shores of Croton. The water is Down but I found a SWEET spot! Lot's of very large fish that was the good part. The last two fish broke off for what seemed to be no reason. After inspecting my rod tip I noticed the line had cut up guide in a couple of places. When I pulled line against the tip the line snapped! Well glad it was a loomis still will cost me $50 but they will give me a new rod. No More Power Pro! The stuff is strong but it Killed a $335 rod.

Jeff BVS (Baron Von Snoozer these day's)

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

Great

I just bought my first spool of Power Pro this afternoon.

__________________
Is it Spring Yet?

Posted by JeffLang BVS on 2002 PM:

To thin Too Strong!

Cost me Two 5+. Just took it off another reel.

Jeff

Posted by Meg on 2002 PM:

Wow Jeff,

That's a bummer. I use power pro on my"skipping under docks" rod, for lack of a better term, and have never had a problem like you mentioned, but I'll be sure to keep an eye out for any difficulties.

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

one of the problems with some of the super lines: as strong as they are, if there is a little nick in the guide It will break that line so easily..... JOHN G

Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 PM:

rods used with superlines will have more guide damage and tip damage.no stretch is not a good thing.to much stretch isn't either.that's why i use berkley sensation.the best of both worlds and no guide damage!!!

__________________
chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:

Dodge.......now don't mince words...

You really like Sensation, don't ya?

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"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing in WNY - A Personal View
> email - RobJinWNY@hotmail.com

Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 PM:

what would give you that idea?i hope you guys try it.i really see no other reason for any other line.rob,didn't you buy some at the rockland show?

__________________
chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by DR on 2002 PM:

Power Pro

I have 5 rods rigged with Power Pro, not ONE has ever had a guide problem EVER. Not saying yours does not, just saying in 3 years and HEAVY fishing abuse, not one trouble for me at all. I just catch and land MORE fish. In the last 2 days I have put down 40-50 smallies between 12" and 19 1/2" flawlessly with Power Pro and $50.00 rods. Here's a few pics from TODAY

__________________
The Creek Bank

Posted by DR on 2002 PM:

another

__________________
The Creek Bank

Posted by DR on 2002 PM:

another one

__________________
The Creek Bank

Posted by DR on 2002 PM:

couldn't do without a braid

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The Creek Bank

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:

Yikes! Great fish! Duane, I'm officially jealous.....

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Bass Fishing in WNY - A Personal View
> email - RobJinWNY@hotmail.com

Posted by TONY ON ICE on 2002 PM:

POWER PRO

What kind of guides did that Loomis rod have on it anyway ?
For $335 bucks they should have been solid Titaium !
I've used Power Pro for two years on one rod (Silstar Lexus $29.95) and I beat the snot out of it and have never had a problem with any of the guides.
I'd drop Loomis like a hot potato and buy 8 good rods in place of the one you have.
The rod business has become such a scam the past ten years.
The same blank Loomis uses for a premium GLX rod ($135.00) can be purchased from Graphite USA in Denver for abut $26.00
Fenwicks top of the line rods that retail for around $200 can be bought in Wal-Marts for $49.95 Fenwick Venture. Different color blank and different name on the rod.
The claim of better sensitivity is also a joke.
With super lines, most rods are servicable and most of the fishing is visibility of your line before you even feel a hit or else the fish snaps the rod out of your hand making the sensitivity issue a waste.

__________________
TONY B. <*)}}}><

Posted by Jameson on 2002 AM:

First of all, If you send your loomis back to the factory for a REPLACEMENT TIP, OR ANY OTHER GUIDE FOR THAT MATTER, you are absolutely out of your mind. That beign said, guides that normally groove from braided line use (and I have found power pro to be the worst in grooving guides) are

Pacific bay, no-name guides (mud-hole e.t.c.), and the LOWEST grade of aluminum oxide guides that fuji sells, those have a green "shock ring" inbetween the ceramic insert and the guide itself. Pac-bay guides usually groove badly (my experience is in Saltwater on two St. Croix rods), and on the two tip-most guides and the tip guide itself, since those are the guides which have the most line-contact.

For groove free performance, make sure your guides are FUJI HARDLOY or better, and an Sic tip cannot hurt. Have NEVER had a hardloy guide groove (they will crack like EVERY other guide if you drop them the wrong way or hit them some weird way) but they are the best for braided line, unless you have the money to go full on sic, which is really the best but OVERKILL IMO. Why do you think I got into building my own rods? Now dude, if you want to send someone $50 to fix your tip-top, I will e-mail you my address, and for $50 I will install a new tip-top and ship it back to your for free.

I will still make $40 LOL seriously bring that rod to a TRUSTED local rod-builder if one of the framed guides are busted, (or do it yourself) if the tip is broken. You just need some 5 minute epoxy and the right size tip. I didn't mean to insult you with my opening line but sending the rod to the manufacturer for a grooved tip is silly IMO.

Pick up a hardloy or an SIC tip and I am sure you will never have a grooving problem again. NO NEED TO spend $20 on a TIP-TOP guide either, no ti-frame or that BS, just get the $5 SIC PST top from fuji and your worries will be over. All my rods have hardloy guides and SIC tips and grooving is a thing of the past. I dunno how my experience in the surf is relative to the FW stuff you guys do, but considering I am casting lots further, and more line is passing over my guides, and the fish that are hunted are much heavier, then it must be a good of a test as any. Good luck.

JC

Posted by Scott E. on 2002 AM:

50lb and 30lb Power Pro on my surf and river rods

And never have had a problem Jeff and my rods are probably a third of the price of your G-Loomis. As jameson said SIC guides are the way to go if using a superline.

Imagine the stress that is put on a rod by a large striper, so a SIC tip and with the use of Power Pro is a must.

__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net

Posted by Paulie D on 2002 AM:

Guys once again I have to get on my soapbox on this one. There seems to be a real misconception about braided super lines and the such. There also seems to be alot of support and I believe misuse on of the product. This is not and attack and I have no sponsors other than my wife and kids so here it goes.

I have talked to many people over the past three years regarding braid and superlines, and most of these anglers throughout the Bass Circuit, FLW, CT Fed Trail etc...DONOT use braid. Yes there is a application for it, flippn heavy vegatation such as the water chestnuts on the Hudson or flippn the Louisiana Delta. But checkout the top finishers from last years classic and you will find that only one of the top six used any type of braid. KVD used 25lb fluro! I even try to stay away from the low stretch monos like Stren Sensor. About three years ago Mike , Pat and I were fishing Maho. I caught some nice fish but lost 3 beauties. Pat grabbed my outfit and advised: get rid of that struff! I switched back to normal mono - No Problems!

Here are the bigest disadvantages of braid for you to consider!

1. Sensitivity - The line is too sensistive! Yes you can feel the bites better, guess what? they can feel you better as well.

2. Bait awareness - With braid you feel everything! You' ll be a hook setting fool! You will alter the way you fish and mentally alter the way you feel baits. Also braid is very limp. If your jig fishing correctly you will not see the line move the way you see it on mono or fluro.

3. Equipment - It absosolutely affects your equipment! Reels as well as Rods. It also affects how you set up your outfit. If you purchased a rod and reel based on a particuar mono setting and then switch to braid you made the rod stiffer! You lose that 80/20 setting and the taper the rod employs. Your also going to lose more baits! That stuff does not give!

4. It harms the FISH!!!! - Again, Mono 22%, Fluro 11%, Braid 0 %.
You are going to put a bigger whole in that fishs mouth with braid - no question about it. We all try to practice conservation and as much as bed fishing gets bashed , i do not hear as much from the dangers of using braid. You damage enough fish with this and it could make an impact.

5. Limited applications - Although i wont use it - I am open minded to the fact that it has its uses in certain applications.

Where I would absolutely not use it:

A. Spinnerbait, Buzzbait
B. Top Water - You lose more fish than you will catch and that includes using a Salad Spoon or Scum Frog!!
C. Drop Shotting, Carolina Riggn, Spilt Shottn.
D. Crankbaiting/ Jerkbaits (Soft and Hard). This speaks for itself.
E. Spoons- Use Fluro instead!!!!
F. Jigs. No need and it affects your bait awareness.
G. Tube fishing - Please use mono for small tubes and put that lead head in 2/3 it allows the tube to bounce along the rocks and you hang up less!!
H. Flippn Tubes - Use Fluro!
I. Worm fishing. That fish will detect you before you detect it - trust me.
J. Senkos - dont ruin a good thing!!!

Last I will leave with a story - Fished a local pond with a buddy of mine a couple years ago. Top water bite was on and we were fishing over heavy Hydrilla mostly submerged. Each of us fishing a PoP R - Buddy was using braid and me mono 12 lb . I landed fish 3-1 over my buddy. When you fish topwater no matter waht that adrenaline builds and you end up hooksetting with your eyes. With braid it componds itself!!

I hope this info was helpfull. It was not meant to put down or bash anyone. It is meant to inform. It is not my opnion alone and I have had many conversations with others to validate those beliefs. You may want to reconsider.

ciao

paulie

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

Jeff,

I believe your tip was cracked prior to using power pro and that damaged the line, not the other way around.

Sounds like you found them stacked up!!!

Paul

Posted by Steve_IA on 2002 AM:

Tony on Ice... I believe a little more research might be in order before you expound upon the marketing practices of the major rod manufacturers. Steve _IA

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

Paulie,

I thought the only valid point you have is #2-when braid is slack you can feel nothing. As for the rest of your points if you use a rod and drag settings intended for mono with braid it's not the fault of the braid.

A disadvantage of braid is it forever tip wraps and wraps arround branches while flipping and pitching and is hard to get out cause there is no stretch.

If everyone will take a few minutes examining their guides and running a cotton ball through them I'm sure you'll find some guides cracked.

Paul

Posted by JeffLang BVS on 2002 AM:

I think Loomis is worth every Dime

I have fished Alot of rod's Cheap ones and High end factory and custom rod's and the G loomis rods felt by far the best to me. The $50 charge is an Expidite service Loomis will 2nd day air me a new rod and I put my old broken rod in tube and send it back "No Questions Asked" If I want to wait about a month I could send rod back and Loomis would replace it free of charge!!! (I have done this at least 10 time Often rod damage was my fault!) I think Loomis rods have made me a better fisherman and they have my highest recomendation!
Paul I thought that same thing but after looking at guides I noticed that the next guide down from the tip was also cut. Checked all my other rod's and they where all fine

Jeff BVS

Posted by Greg Hill on 2002 AM:

I'm useing power pro on 1 rod for certain applications but not with my Avids even though they have SIC guides.I use PP to avoid line twist w/inlines,S flukes and the same rod is used for 1/4 oz spinnerbaits.I dont see a big need for it on the avids as they are plenty sensitive as is.Even though I dont use power pro for its sensitivity in my applications,it makes a cheap rod as sensitive as any expensive rod on the market.I like a little stretch and forgiveness however so I stick to mean green and excalober for all other spinning applications.

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 AM:

Spiderline Fusion...

Jeff, that is a real bummer about your guide damage. Please, bud, don't take this wrong. Are you sure it came from the Power Pro and not from some other line or accidental damage? I'd hate to think that my deep interest in trying Power Pro could lead to damaged guides, albeit none of my rods even come close to the caliber of a Loomis. I am a big fan of superlines.

As some of you know, I have been using Spiderline Fusion, which is obviously not a braid, for years now. On one setup, I have 4 year-old line which battled literally hundreds of Smallmouths - even in the hand of beginners I've taken out (it's my "borrowin' rod"). Were talking 2 to 4 lb. bronzebacks, yanking high-resistance crankbaits thousands of times. The rod is an old 2-piece Shakespeare, too. Ceramic guides - not so much as a scratch on them.

I know not everyone likes Fusion, but I have never lost a fish on it due to hooksets or line parting. Cast after cast, for well over 5 years now, it has never let me down. I use it mainly on my 'tube draggin' spinning rods, nowadays, and I've been placing fluorocarbon leaders at the end of the line.

My other rods have been getting various tastes of monofilament lines over the last year. Personally, I really like Silver Thread Excalibur and, believe it or not, 12 lb. Remington co-poly straightened out a VMC treble hook I had on a Husky Jerk which got hung up on a branch and wouldn't let go with anything I tried. Not bad for a line that seems to be going by the wayside.

__________________

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Bass Fishing in WNY - A Personal View
> email - RobJinWNY@hotmail.com

Posted by DR on 2002 AM:

Paullie D

You DO just about have NO facts at all, sorry.

I'll do the "story" 1st!

Fished the last two days with different people, them with mono, me with braid....I OUTFISHED 3 TO 1 THE 1ST GUY, and TOTALLY SHUT OUT the 2nd fellow! he was "skunked" The ONLY difference was I HAD BRAID they did NOT.

1. sensititivty is a GOOD thing, if you feel him set the damn hook!

2. if you do that, you don't know HOW to fish!

3. I see NO differnece in equpitment EXCEPT braid makes my $50 rods feel like $500.00

4. that one is TOO FUNNY to even reply too!

5. I use a braid for EVERY one of those applications, set my drag accordingly and DO use a glass rod for certian ones to ALLOW FOR THE LACK OF STRETCH.

We need to use our heads here people, a Pinto can take you back and forth to work and so can the ever so popular SUV's ....but HOW YOU DRIVE THEM makes all the difference in the world.

DR

__________________
The Creek Bank

Posted by EFederlein on 2002 AM:

DO NOT USE EPOXY ON YOUR ROD TIP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to Kmart or Walmart and buy a tip top repair kit it come with the special cement that you heat and apply and to take it off you heat it again.

As for the tip go to cabelas and get a a sic tip from fuji.

I also build my own rods but have found now you can get rods from the store just as good with all the quality fugi parts for much less than if you put it together yourself.

Also I would be glad to show you first hand how to repair your rod tip and other guides I live in Orange County I am probally not all that far from you

I have a tip sizer and all the things needed for the repair except for the tip.

If you want email me your phone number and I will give you a call.

Posted by ADKBass on 2002 AM:

i agree with dodge, sensation is good stuff!!

__________________
"Time spent fishing does not count against our allotted time on this earth." Joe V. - The Troll

Posted by EFederlein on 2002 AM:

Bought Sensation the other day because that was all the store had and I did not like it backlashes very easy

And yes I know how to cast a baitcaster.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Jeff don't blame it on the line. For 335, the guides should be at least SIC. I bet they were simple ceramic which is notorious for grooving with superlines.

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Posted by Paulie D on 2002 AM:

DR, it is not really a matter of fact but preference. Many of the points i brought up are directly from Denny Brauer, Kevin Van Dam, Mike Del Visco, Pete Gluszek, Mark Davis and my own experience. So you can take them to task as well. If you want to use braid be my guest it is a free country. I think anglers get to hung up with latest craze and dont keep it simple. Braid has its place, but if it out fished mono and fluro 3/1 every TX angler would be exclusivley using it. Like my daddy always said it aint the bat it's the man holding it. You out fished those others because of your skills not the braid.

Paul all of those points are valid you just dont agree with them!

ciao

paulie

Posted by BASSBOB5 on 2002 AM:

Can't stand braided line ....... it also gets stuck down in the spool...I think thats why mitchell made that cross web wrap casting reel....I would of thought a GLX would have SIC guides

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

Paulie,

"You out fished those others because of your skills not the braid. "

"Last I will leave with a story - Fished a local pond with a buddy of mine a couple years ago. Top water bite was on and we were fishing over heavy Hydrilla mostly submerged. Each of us fishing a PoP R - Buddy was using braid and me mono 12 lb . I landed fish 3-1 over my buddy. When you fish topwater no matter waht that adrenaline builds and you end up hooksetting with your eyes. With braid it componds itself!!"

How do these statements add up.

Here is my take on it:

You out fished those others because of your skills not the mono.

When fishing topwater set the hook when you feel the fish......I don't see how it would be any different for mono or braid.

#1 It's a race between the angler to get the hook point home and the fish to drop the bait. When using braid does the fish have an advantage or the angler?

#2 I agree that braid, on a slack line has no sensitivity at all, so I restrict it's use to tight line techniques. I could see that braid might work quite well for spinnerbaits and crankbaits and the like.

#3 Again if you use equipment designed for mono and set your drag as if using mono with braid you are going to have problems. It would be similar to using 20lb Big Game on a 2000 size spin reel.....there are going to be problems.

#4 That's just pure speculation on your's or someone else's part. Again refer to #3.

#5 Let's go drag some rats over the cheeze in the San Joaquin River Delta and we'll see how mono and braid compare.

It seems to me that you have written off a tool that could be very valuable w/out fully testing it with the proper set-up. That's fine for you, but to come on the board and bascially say there is no benefit and a lot of harm being done is not quite fair to the more inexperinced on this board. It's nice to name drop or whatever but those guys are fishermen of a different league. The braid MAY help make up for the different levels of skill and experince for those of us(including me) not lucky enough to have the skills of those you mention.

As far as it goes I don't fish braid much at all. I use it for chestnuts, rats, and c-rigging which I typically do with my flipping sticks. These are moderate fast actions and I do like a lighter drag setting when using braid, normally I like a locked down drag.

Some reasons not to use braid are the:

1. Tip wrapping.

2. Hard to break off- will take your flesh right down to bone if you are not careful.

3. It doesn't handle as well on my reels.

4. Jigging or worming- you don't get the visible indicators of a pickup as easily as with mono, especially stiff, underated lines such as Big Game or Pline XXX. (20lb BG has a breaking strength of 33+lbs.)

Some reasons to use braid are:

1. Cuts vegetation like a hot knife through butter....chestnuts for example.

2. Ultra sensitive for tightline techniques.....you'll be able to feel your spinnerbait blade make EVERY revolution w/out buying a $300 rod.

3. Hook setting at long range is a lot easier. Some hooksetting errors will be overcome with braid.

4. More vertical fall for current situations or fishing wind. You can use a lighter weight and maintain the same contact with structure and cover.

5. Doesn't twist as bad as mono fishing softjerkbaits.

Paul

Posted by Paulie D on 2002 PM:

Paul, exactly my point! This is how the two statements add up. There was no reason for my buddy to have on 25 lb Spiderwire that day. Would he have caught as many with me if using mono. Maybe, Maybe not? The point is we all look for ways to improve, better line, expensive rods, the newsest of newest of baits. If you think braid makes you a better fisherman fine use it. I said as much in both of my posts. I did take an opposite view on the product based on my experiences and others besides some of the other names I dropped in my previous post. I used those names on purpose as well, because one of the most asked questions at every seminar I have been to the last 4 years is that one. And EVERBODY asks it and EVERYBODY takes note. And then you have a choice. Take the advice or dont. It's like getting second opinions: you keep asking until you hear the answer you like! I realize I may be in the minority on this subject and I have held offf many times when seeing the subject come up. I did not fabricate any info. ALL of the points are valid!! They are not speculation! You may not agree as I may not with your points , but I respect that you have the right to say it. I have seen crankbaits ripped out fishes mouths with braid, I'm sure it can happen with Floro as well. You mention there are many inexperinenced on the board that may have been swayed by my diatribe, possible, but just the same you share equal blame. As far as the San Joaquin River goes I leave that one to the experts, it's a bit out of my league.

ciao

paulie

Posted by joe pido on 2002 PM:

again..its all about choice and preference

Braid and super lines have their pros and cons. So does mono. What works for you might not work for me and vice versa. And there are some gifted anglers who can go either way, using mono and braid for specific purposes. Couple of well known pros who use braids and mono interchangeably are Tim Horton, who used 50 lb superline at Toho to win a tx, Alton Jones flips with Spiderwire and old guy Roland Martin used spiderwire with a floro leader to win Champlain. Matt Straw of Infisherman mag recommends braid and a floro leader for hard jerkbaits. We all know that braid is a no-no on rocks, but deadly when spinnerbaiting in weeds, slicing grass as the blade whirrs by.

I believe Jeff's problem was due to a rod and line compatability and NOT the line. Adjustment of drag, the action of the rod goes all to play when using braids and superlines. With the no stretch factor, the rod has to have some give . If your tightening the drag and using a heavy action rod, and pulling against a hard fighting fish time and time again, its almost like cutting your rod guides with a saw.

Joe

Posted by Chaz on 2002 PM:

Replace the tip-top...

Jeff:
Don't send back the rod for a tip-top(the end guide name) replacement !!! You can get a (2)replacement FUJI SIC/Hardoloy
tip-tops for about $6.00 in a kit (BPS,K-Mart)& it also contains a hot melt glue stick for you to use. ALL tip-tops are manufactured using this stuff. To remove the old tip-top, use a lighter and gently heat the metal part of the t/t(tip-top) your removing(Don't use heat on the blanknly on the metal sheath or you'll ruin the blank!!!). In a few seconds, the glue will loosen and the t/t can be removed by holding it with pliers(it's hot, remember?) and just sliding it off-it's that easy. Take the glue stick, heat it, rub some glue on the end of the blank and place the new t/t on, aligning it up with the other guides. If any glue gets squeezed out as you put the t/t on, just wipe away while its still liquid/soft. Next, after it sets for a minute and making sure its aligned, run the tip of the rod under cold water. That's it. It's even easier than it sounds. Don't send that precious rod back via mail or UPS-it's liable to get crushed under some packages or run over by a truck or something and a Loomis rod deserves better! Give it some TLC and remove that rod t/t. You'll be happy to do it yourself and save your rod from the perils of shipping!!!(In the spirit of political correctness, I apologise to all careful delivery persons everywhere. But then you are few and far between, Oops! There I go again).
Chaz

__________________
Chaz
Good Luck & Good Fishing!!!

Posted by Paulie D on 2002 PM:

Joe, well said. It brings up the important aspect that matching line to the proper equipment plays. I think if your going to use braid then keep it on a separate outfit that you wont be switching back and forth on. If your pocketbook cant handle that then you have to employ proper drag settings as Paul Mattie mentioned earlier. Again my point, the simpler the better. Again if braid is your thing use and be confident with it , but consider some of the other aspects as well.

ciao

paulie

Posted by Jameson on 2002 PM:

You can use the "heat glue" that is so widely accepted, if you are so inclined. HOWEVER...

Leave your rod in the car while at work and you will probably have that tip-top move or break it's seal with the glue due to the heat, and it WILL cast off at the worst moment, how many of you guys keep tip-top glue with ya? I dont, and superglue is a no-no so you might be Shoot out of luck on the water unless prepared with lots of extra stuff.

Use the devcon 5-minute epoxy, and when you want to take that off (IT DOES NOT COME OFF as easily as the cheap heat glue, but it will not come off unless you want it to) you can use a heat gun, or just a lighter briskly passed over until it is warm, then twist/pull it off very simple. This is the best surefire way to minimize rod-tiop failures. I have had rod-tips sitting on the deck (boat) in the sun on 95+ degree days totally lose their grip and come off on a cast, this is NOT ACCEPTABLE the way I fish, ever.

As for the expensive rod thing you guys are so hung up on, just look for fast action graphites in the IM6+ range. Allstar, Lami, St. Croix, all produce fair priced factory blanks/rods that will get hte job done. I hear ya on braids, I like mono for FW in all applications but in the surf I use braid 98% of the time, just too many advantages, you got 100 yards+ of mono out there in a good cast (fishing stuff that can be cast 100 yard of course LOL) and it feels like a big rubber band when you set the hook, even the good monos dont compare to that THWACK that a striped bass/bluefish transmits to a rod. It feels like someone hit the pole with a stick, and you rarely need more than a slight lean or a wrist snap for a hookset, the work is already done LOL

JC

Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:

I never have seen the point to argue about an issue that is obviously a personal preference

I have tried braided/fused line on several seperate occasions, and came to the same basic conclusions as Paulie did (yes, even the damaging of the fish part). It don't work for me!!! or should I say, it didn't fit my style! Either way, I have no plans on using it again.

It's all what makes you confident all said and done. Superlines left me unconfident, while it boosts confidence in others. As long as both parties are happy with what they are using, why try to change the minds of others??

Absolutely no sense getting hard feeling over this issue.

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- Protection and organization of your rods

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Posted by Paul at home on 2002 PM:

I can assure you this is all in fun and nothing personal. I prefer coploymers (95%) and don't use much braid, but just didn't believe that it should be written off quite that quickly.

Posted by Pete L on 2002 PM:

I have been using braids ,since spiderwire first came out.
However -- this year i am going back to mono , EXCEPT on
my Sider Rod with the mitchell spider cross wrap reel.
The only time i hace had a problem with the rod tip is on my Basss Pro Extreme rod. After loosing the insert from the rod tip for the second time, i finally figured out why. The braid had cut clean thru. It aslo happened on my buddies BPS Extreme.

That being said, i still like the braided line for fishing heavy cover. I have caught numerous bass in HEAVY weeds and lilly pads, that i would have never gotten out otherwise.

In the end , like others have said -- It`s whatever you arecomfortable with. Pete

__________________
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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and
"mental illness."

Posted by Paulie D on 2002 PM:

Paul, point well taken. I was just presenting an opposing view, and in some respects from a senastionalist standpoint to get my point across. I feel you made some valid points. I stand by mine as well. These are all tools of the trade. I feel we and others pointed out the pros and cons effectively on this topic. Best remedy for Cabin Fever is getting out on the water. Can't wait!!

ciao

paulie

Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 PM:

efederline,are you sure we are talking about the same line?sensation is just about the limpest,best casting mono i have ever used.i'll bet that anybody who trys it for a season will like it unless they are just die hard braid fisherman.i would use floro,but i can't cast it.maybe somebody put vanish in your sensation box.try another spool and see what you think.baron von senko,e.w. is right about the sic guides.braids are much harder on any guide.sometimes the ceramic pops out of the tip.i have seen this even with fuji guides when using braid.do yourself a favor and try a spool of sensation.

__________________
chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by DR on 2002 PM:

No hard feelings here at ALL!!

The posts are to be COMPLIMENTED! for the great info and "both sides of the story" so to speak.

Each IS a tool and where and how you fish concludes what you use and prefer.

I have BOTH mono and braids and have been toying with braids since the VERY begining, good and bad points to ALL lines!!!

Now, if someone, and I have said this before....would come out with a fluorocarbon that handles like mono and has the diameter and strength of braids, it would revolutionize the industy and would be on EVERY pole you and I have.

DR

__________________
The Creek Bank

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:

In a strange way, I enjoy reading the debates, because Noel is right - we all come to find 'confidence' in certain products, and extol them before others. It's what makes the world go 'round - variety!

Tight Lines...

__________________

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Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:

I just wish dodgeguy would stop beating around the bush and come out and tell us what he recommends!!!

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:

Yeah, Dodge...

What line is it that you like again? Could you post up a pic or something?

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Posted by wnybassman on 2002 PM:

To be perfectly honest, I DO have 4 and 6 pound test Sensation rigged on the rods I am taking to Seneca. It wasn't my first choice, but when I went to Wally World a week or two ago, they didn't have much of a selection. I have ued it before, and it is a decent line. Not my first choice, but a decent line.

Posted by TONY ON ICE on 2002 AM:

POWER PRO

STEVE_IA

I've been bulding rods longer than some of the guys here have been on this earth and also worked for one of the major rod manufacturers Rep groups.

Bottom line is if you think a $300 dollar rod will make you a better fisherman and you can afford it, have at it.

The days of convincing people that it takes so many hours to build a custom rod is over with.
Unfortunately, some people still believe that rod building is a highly skilled trade.
In all reality, good eyesight, half a brain and a little practice and anyone can build their own rods.

My research is always ongoing and the more I learn about the graphite manufacturing business, the more I'm convinced that $300 dollar rods are a total waste of money ! Not that the rods are bad...just rediculously overpriced !
Sure these companies sometimes offer a lifetime gaurantee but they've already charged you 4 times the amount that the rod should be selling for.

__________________
TONY B. <*)}}}><

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 AM:

I can see Jeff's point very clearly: if it is a luxury that he can afford, and is perfectly happy with , then why not!!

Paulie, as he said, is not just speaking personally, as his brother has contact with the heavyweights that he mentioned...

However, Paul's points were also very good and I agree with many of them, as well as DR..

Amazing how this one post generated so much....fact is that braids add a new dimension to fishing and our reaction to them will be very varied as all can see..

And each persons individual style and skill will naturally affect their personal experience with them.....

JOHN G

Posted by Steve_IA on 2002 AM:

Tony on Ice... I won't argue with you concerning the statements of your last post... however... your first post was a little misleading. While many of the major manufactures do sell discount stores, i.e. Walmart ( they need the volume to survive), those rods are special built for those stores to achieve the price-points the stores request... with the quality of components that are befiting that price point. The buyers of these rods will undoubtedly receive a rod of the quality they are paying for. I'm quite confident that you won't find the "top of the line 200.00 rods" in these stores for 45.00. Happy fishing. Steve_IA

Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 AM:

wnybassman,you are sooo funny!!!!!

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chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by EFederlein on 2002 PM:

Rod Tip

Believe me I have been building rods for half my life and NEVER use epoxy on your rod tips!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have NEVER had a tip come off.

Even with the sun pounding on the surf rod all day.

Use epoxy if you want the rod shorter next time you break a tip.

Cause with the amount of heat you will need to loosen the exoxp you WILL weaken the structure of the rod tip itself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Jameson on 2002 AM:

Hasn't happened to me, and one of the finest surf rod builders in the industr advocates it. If you know how to apply heat properly you will not ruin blanks. Another example of closed minded thinking. Just because you 'old-timers' have been doing things your way for 20 years doesen't mean that there isn't a better way. If any of you leave your rods in a hot-car while your at work know what I am talking about. It isn't like I never tried to use tip-top glue before, in fact i used three different brands and they ALL would loosen up in the truck on warm days, and a few even popped off on the first cast (obviously not enough time to cool and set again). But they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and every time I read something like this it confirms that statement. Next you'll be telling me the various advantages that bamboo rods and varnish have over a thin epoxy thread coating/fast action graphite combo

JC

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

I use mostly mono. There are times I like to use braid...not often but it is a tool for me in certain situations. I feel it is more senstive and has zero stretch. It cuts through the weeds and has no memory. Mono has its pluses too and they both have there con's as well. I don't feel that a 335 rod fished much better than the 70.00 Bionic Blades or 100.00 Extremes I use to justify the cost difference. I've never worn through a tip with my BPS rods, I've taken huge numbers of bass and big bass for that matter without failures. If you have the money to spend go for it. It certainly does not make a guy a better fisherman becasue he uses a 900.00 combo. Stella/Loomis are good products but I'll stick with my reliable lesser priced equipment. I have no problem using a 170.00 reel it is my choice. If that same reel was priced 300.00....I would use something else. DR, I enjoyed your points. I still question the fact that Jeff had this problem in the first place with such a high end rod. Jeff please fix it yourself or take it to a tackle shop. They are taking advantage by charging 50.00 for something that should not have failed in the first place.

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Posted by JeffLang BVS on 2002 AM:

Bass Pro Rods

My only experence with bass pro rod's have been bad I bought two three years ago. Broke one the first week snaped Should not have happened. The secound on the tip fell off dont know if it was my fault or if rods where defective. Now for loomis If I send the rod back the will replace it FREE OF CHARGE Loomis will pay all shipping and ask no questions (They have done this for me over 20 times not all my rods) If you send them an old model beaten and abused they will send you the brand new model!!! It takes round trip over a month. During the season that is too much time So they also have there expidite program. I call them up they secound day me a new rod I drop broken one in tube and send it back worth $50 to me. Not too bad.

Jeff BVS

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Jeff, I'm not knocking you. Have you really been around 20 broken Loomis rods???? That sounds like A you are bad luck or B there is a serious problem with Loomis

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Posted by dodgeguy on 2002 AM:

(a)jeff uses light rods (b)he comeswith massive,rippling biceps!!!

__________________
chrysler master technician and avid fisherman

Posted by JeffLang BVS on 2002 AM:

Earthworm I think I am bad luck! LOL

I have broken Lot's of rods (almost all my fault) not all 20 where mine. But one time last year I did open the convertible top on my car and broke the tips off 5 Loomis rod's they where all replaced at no charge.

Jeff

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

5 in one shot....eke!!!!

That must have made your heart sink!!!! I think sometimes guys just have a bad time or two with certain equipment. I'm going through it with Sensation right now. It is minor but it cost me some fish. I've been using the BPS rods for over 10 years and I've never even come close to having a problem. I fish them hard...ask anyone who has been out with me asbout my hookset.....I'm dead serious when it comes to setting!!! Ouch 5 Loomis rods in one shot.......glad they have a no questions asked policy right????

__________________
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Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

I've had a few rods break on be during combat such as Fenwick's, Garcias and All Stars. This was early on in my fishing and to this day I would never switch from my beloved BPS Blades and Extremes........unless Charlie lends me a Loomis spinning rod to fish for the season....hint, hint

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Posted by Charlie on 2002 AM:

G.Loomis Loaner Program!!!!!

Dear Mr. Earthworm,

It has come to the attention of the Board of Directors of G.Loomis Inc., that you wish to establish a "rod loaner" program on Long Island, New York.

While we at the factory welcome the opportunity to share our technological feats of engineering skill with the world, we consider your request, a non-starter, hysterically funny, un-likely and with basically little or no chance whatsoever!

Thank you for your interest in G.Loomis, we look forward to abusing you again in the not too distant future.

LMAO!!!!!

Tight Lines!

Charlie

p.s. Take me fishing I might let ya play with my pole!!!

__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler, Journalist and New York State Guide # 2803
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 AM:

Charlie

Play with his pole and he might take you fishing.

__________________
Is it Spring Yet?

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

hey charlie...
your message is here.

lol. i had to man. you are a funny guy. that's not a PoleISH accent is it?? lol.

__________________
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We're talking about "Spring" fishing...... right?

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 AM:

Rob, show some respect

To our Autralian freind.

__________________
Is it Spring Yet?

Posted by Charlie on 2002 PM:

OK... enough with the Polish and Australian!!!
Nice Map!
How did you ever find it? and did you know that the little island underneath it is Tazmania? and the the blue islands are New Zealand?

Funny thing, did you ever notice how much New Zealand looks like Italy with the boot broken off!.....

Talking of breaking Italian legs!!!! BASS RAT!!!!!! it's gonna be your turn in the barrel!

As for you Theole your next!!! LOL
ciao

Carlo

__________________
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"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

I went to Luigis once....their house specialty was Broken leg of Lamb! LOL................ JOHN G

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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Quote: "coming soon"
---------------------------------

Posted by Northbass on 2002 PM:

I thought charlie was South African??

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

That's it!!!! I'm on the phone with INS as I post this. LOL Play with your pole............check please!!!!!!!

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Posted by Mark Weare on 2002 PM:

Did not have the time to read all the post's up front on this one and I will aslo say up front that I am part of the Power Pro Canadian Pro Staff.

That being said, I have never had any problems yet with Power Pro or other superlines that I have tested over the last few years. I have yet to damage a tip top or tip for that matter. I really like the stuff and do recommend it.

Being a tough line it could feasibly bring out a design problem in a tip quicker but I am not even sure of that.

Make sure that you have your drag set properly and do not always use the heaviest rod possible as well like you would for mono. This stuff has no stretch so you need to accomodate that on the hookset but since it is so sensitive, it has obvious benefits right there.

Never send a rod back to the factory for a tip top or guide, take it to your local shop. They can put on a premium SiC, Hardloy or Alconite tip top for a couple bucks.

Good Luck but do not give up on the PP, it is good stuff.

Mark WEare

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

bumped back up for broadbill

bumped back up for broadbill

bumped back up for broadbill

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Posted by JonS on 2002 AM:

I use braids almost excluseively and have rarely had problems with the stuff. I use it for everything except very light UL trout fishing where the lures are too light to wind the line with tension on the spool.

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Posted by vladdrac on 2002 PM:

new guides

I too had the same problem with an old pole. I lost some nice fish until I inspected the top guide and found that it had a razor sharp edge to it after my superline dug into it. I just bought a pole for my girl and am seeing them use titanium guides instead of the ceramic. I assume these new metal guides should withstand the strength of these power lines. Just something I will keep in mind the next time I buy poles for myself.

Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

As some here know that remember me, I don't use braids for bass applications....but who cares, that's only my choice

I do use braid for one thing, for long line trolling pike and muskies over deep summertime cabbage with plugs.

The only question I have out of this whole thread or more like a point....A Loomis of that price is more than likely a GLX(have had two, both the same model for wormin and j-n-pigs), meaning very high mod....braids do not suit this style rod....something has to give.

best, Trav

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 PM:

SNAP!!!! G Loomis loses!!!!

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Posted by HookUp on 2002 AM:

Great Thread

First, I fish mostly mono and catch allot of fish with it.

Next, I'm on another sight w/ DR and that man catches fish too. Big'uns.

In an interest to increase my fish size (see I can catch dinks all day long), I've started adjusting some of my techniques, and I must admit, the last two years have produced bigger fish, while keeping my numbers up.

DR has a technique w/ braided lines. I have it w/ mono.

When I started fishing for bass, one of my lines was Spiderwire Braid. Loved the feel and the hooksets of the line, infact I could tell the difference between a Coors and Budweiser beer can by draggin my bait over the can on the bottom of the river, that line is so sensitive.

But after breaking three rods in one day, I stopped fishing braids. Now I must admit, before a couple years ago, I never owned a rod/reel that cost more that $50, but I still caught lotsa fish. Now I have almost a dozen rods/reels, all just on the south side of $200. Can't see myself buying $350 rods.

Until a couple months ago. I bought PP 20/6 and 10/2. 10/2 is to thin. Now I'm looking for the 15/5 (it should really be 15/4, but whose counting).

Now I'm about 40/60. PP&Spiderwire/Mono.

Some baits are made for Power Pro. Some, I'm still learning to fish with Power Pro.

Rods (for me) to use with Power Pro are one-piece graphite rods in the medium to medium-heavy range, under $100, and preferably around $50 if I can find one. UL and Med-light rods, for me, are strickly mono.

Haven't given up my mono, and probably never will (until I go fishing w/ DR and get skunked) but PP is definatly in my arsenal now, thanks to all them d@mn Walters of SM bass that DR posts.

In DR's case, I don't think it's just the line.

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

I am using a LR 844 S mod fast heavy action with 30lb power pro for fishing the midsummer weeds with good success.

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

i use PP alot. and my PP doesn't break rods unless i do a stupid PP thing! if you let it wrap your tip, and reel through it.. you will cut the tip off. if you take it easy and pay attention.. this stuff serves you well.

i owe a few nice fish to PP!

robbies opinion on PP.

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We're talking about "Spring" fishing...... right?