Posted by Bass Hawg on 2002 PM:

How a nice catch can become UN-nice!!!

Imagine being on your lake on a beautiful day where the sun's setting and just about everything seems perfect. You're sitting in your new boat (PRO 120) with your favorite rod and lucky lure (jitter bug). Splash! Suddenly you feel your rod being jerked and you think you have a catch. Now you're tugging and fighting and you KNOW you've got the catch of a lifetime! Could it be at least an 8 to 10 pounder? Oh yeah, I can see parts of this baby on the end of my line. Then SNAP! NOOOOOO! Why why why did I have to do eveything wrong the day I catch my biggest fish!! Why was my drag so tight! Why didn't I flip the bail! Not only did I lose the fish, but my line broke and that fish is somewhere back in the lake with my jittebug stuck in its mouth! It's going to take weeks for those hooks to rust out. Can anyone say anything that will make me feel better than that fish right now?????

Posted by Northbass on 2002 PM:

It happens. You just learn and move on. There are so many elements to fishing from lure selection to landing a fish. Focus always.

__________________
Eastern Suffolk Bass Anglers ... Micro-Munch Tackle

Posted by JOHN G on 2002 PM:

Hawg, North said it all, so many little things, and just when we think we have mastered most of them, the fish or conditions throw us some new curveballs......an agressive fish like that will strike again, regardless of whether that thing is in his mouth or not, he has to eat! You know his home, big bass are notoriously territorial.......you will get another chance!!! jOHN G

__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one another"
---------------------------------
> email - DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
---------------------------------
Quote: "coming soon"
---------------------------------

Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

victor!...sorry to hear, man... let's get together and cry over some cold sierra nevada pale ales

i would take john's advice...go back to the spot with a determination to catch that fish again... imagine how psyched you'd be if you caught it with a rusty old jitterbug hanging on her lip...now that would be a story!

__________________
Mike D in NYC
Webmaster NYBI
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
check out your NYBASS buddies at: NYBASS_ILLUSTRATED
---------------------------------

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

It hurts, i know, trust me i know

I can only add exactly what my dad does, when that has happend to him, twice now this year - oh well!.
Myself, i have lost a number of big fish this year, and when things finally sunk in, the best i can say is that, when you are fighting a fish, DO NOT make it a stressfull experience. Now i know, when you hook a huge bass, all the chips are on the table, but just try taking a few slow deep breaths, when you catch your self getting exited. Last 5lber i got wrapped herself around a tree, and i still got lucky and got her, only cause i didnt panic, and i let the 12lb xt do it's thing.
Lance

Posted by b1nyc on 2002 PM:

ahh, yes, good old sierra nevada pale ale. my favorite.

Posted by Bass Hawg on 2002 PM:

Thanks guys for all the replies. I'm still upset but I'll get over it. I
still have a lot to learn. For instance, I just realized that the reason Senkos are so successful is because they are impregnated with salt, and salt is the main component in blood, which attracts other fish to feed on it.

Mike, beer definitely helped that night. I drank a few to help me get over my loss. By the way, I like your icon. I'm a huge Redskins fan.

Posted by FrankPug on 2002 PM:

Excellent responses. Move on is the way to go. As difficult as that is. Just think, now you've got a reason to go back and find that SOB and get your lure back!

Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

for those members that don't know, my avatar is of george allen...legendary former coach of the washington redskins
...the team that WILL TAKE SUPER BOWL GLORY IN 2002/3

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!!!!

sorry...i'm getting so damn pumped for this season, i can't control myself.

Posted by hammer on 2002 PM:

ouch

try heavier line!

__________________
hammer

Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:

mike-that explains why that picture didn't look like you--i ain't a sports fan and was confused as hell--thanx for the explanation-i was worried there for awhile and quite concerned about my mental health--bobn

Posted by BobbyBass on 2002 PM:

Bass Hog,,,,,,, i wrote about this one time like john G says somebody will have another shot at it might be u.. i was fishing last year . with a senko and i land a nice 3 pounder.. and it had a big spinner bait stuck in his face and the area he was in was very heavily weeded... he could have easly got caught up and died but i caught him took the spinner bait out and watched him swim away i felt good ...............

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 PM:

UMMMM, loosen your drag, use fresh line, backreel and quit crying!!!

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:

What did the man say?

"UMMMM, loosen your drag, use fresh line, backreel and quit crying!!!"

Backreel...Backreel...Backreel

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

why backreel, if you have a smooth drag, and it is set properly?

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 PM:

A drag is mechanical and bound to failure if you rely on it soley. I don't have a reel equipped with a drag that I would bet on 100% and I fish with some very good stuff. Backreeling can eliminate line breakage if you get the hang of it and utilize it correctly. As far as a drag set correctly.....I'm sure Basshawg thought his was set correctly.....just because you think it is set correctly, doe not mean it actually is. Things slip and over time loosen or tighten. Did I mention backreeling would solve this problem?

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by "Wild Bill" on 2002 PM:

It happens Dude....It's the one that keeps us all coming back

the important thing to figure out now is what to do different to land the biggest fish you ever fought, not caught. To catch it, you must land it !
The biggest suggestion is to lighten up your drag a bit, as it should give under the strain of a monster fish. Too many guys crank their drag down WAY TOO tight, and bust off, or pull their hooks out due to an overly tightened drag. Loosen the drag, loosen your mindset, and get back out there and stick it again.
Good luck.

__________________
Share fishing with someone .

Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:

Backreeling is the way to go...

I know from Personal experience that you will lose less big fish if you backreel. Setting the drag too loose is not good either. When you buy a new spinning reel, look where the antidrag lever is...make sure its easily accessible so that you can just flip it when the fight begins. As a bonus, you are more in tune with the fight of the fish, not just holding on hoping the drag will spin when it needs too. How many times have you seen guys panic and reel AS the drag is going out?....thats a big no no....by by bucket mouth...

Gary

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

HMM, maybe i will give backreeling a try next time i hook something big. I can say that i have lots of practice landing big fish on spinning tackle - salmon, pike. walleye, carp, smallies, ect.- without backreeling. But hey, i am open to anything that will increase my landing percentage.

The only drag failure i have ever had, is on a crappy shimano rear drag model. And that was because i had a striper make a 100 yard run on 8 lb test, so the drag heated up and seized.
Lance

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Bigred, you will just know when to flip that switch to turn the anti-rev off.

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by "Wild Bill" on 2002 PM:

Okay, when back-reeling....

does the drag still work if you don't back reel fast enough?
As I am one to use a drag, I am willing to learn from you guys that backreel if you really think it's better at landing big fish.
In other words, if you freeze up or don't backreel fast enough, will the drag lay out line like it normally would if the switch is off??

__________________
Share fishing with someone .

Posted by Bass Hawg on 2002 PM:

Earthworm (SUPER PRO)

Thanks for the quit crying advice. Earthworm

Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:

in theory, yes it should work-- assuming it is a perfect drag and properly set it should work-if you are not back reeling fast enough, in a perfect world the drag should kick in and let line off before the breaking point--what the guys are saying is they don't want to rely on a drag because if there is a mechanical problem of any kind you may break the line--they would rather feel the fight and adjust the line tension to suit the need of the moment themselves rather than rely on a mechanical device to do it for them-- bobn

you can only do this with a spinner--bait casters do not have this option unless it is an old knuckle buster from bygone days

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

ok, so maybe i will try back reeling, but, just like bobn said, what about baitcasters?
Although most quality bait casters (AbuG-C3) on up, have an excellent drag, do you just rely on it?

I have definetly noticed that not alot of bassfisherman pay attention to the drag setting on their baitcasters, but i am carefull to set mine according to a scale(at 1/3 the line's breaking strength).
What do some others do?
Lance

Posted by mr jig on 2002 PM:

Easy.

This back reeler sets the drag so it slips only with the rod pointed almost directly at the fish.
Most losses are because of poor hooksets.
Drags are set on average far too light, resulting in inadequate hooksets.
If you get a good set you generally get your fish.... baring disaster.
I would never worry about a smooth drag except with saltwater fish which tend to make long runs.
Most FW fish don't run at all.
Best.
Dick.

Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:

quote:

Originally posted by Bigredfishing
ok, so maybe i will try back reeling, but, just like bobn said, what about baitcasters?
Although most quality bait casters (AbuG-C3) on up, have an excellent drag, do you just rely on it?

I have definetly noticed that not alot of bassfisherman pay attention to the drag setting on their baitcasters, but i am carefull to set mine according to a scale(at 1/3 the line's breaking strength).
What do some others do?
Lance

With baitcasters I like to crank the drag all the way down. Should the need arise I disengauge the spool and hold tension on it with my thumb. It's actually easier than back reeling with a spinning reel.

Just don't let go of that spool or you're gonna have one nasty backlash! And a lost fish.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

Re: Easy.

quote:

Originally posted by mr jig

If you get a good set you generally get your fish.... baring disaster.

Ok, i totally agree there

quote:

I would never worry about a smooth drag except with saltwater fish which tend to make long runs.

Ok, so alot of freshwater fish don't make LONG runs, but they do run. A crappy drag puts a large amount of stress on the knots, even if it is just for a 15 foot run from a 5lb bass. Also, i fish the hudson and mohawk alot, as you do, and as you know, the chance of hooking a fish that makes long runs, and demands a smooth drag, is there(eg: stripers, carp, ect). It has paid me dividends to have a smooth properly tuned drag.

quote:

Originally posted by JPBass

With baitcasters I like to crank the drag all the way down. Should the need arise I disengauge the spool and hold tension on it with my thumb. It's actually easier than back reeling with a spinning reel.

Just don't let go of that spool or you're gonna have one nasty backlash! And a lost fish

That is a very difficult technique to master, unless you are experienced and confident with a baitcaster. I learned to do that, when doing the figure 8 for muskies. I dont know if i would want to do that for bass though.

Lance

PS: this is what i love about this forum!, an excellent, high level exchange, that helps everyone.

Posted by mr jig on 2002 PM:

bigredfishing and others.

First, i rarely use baitcasting for freshwater fishing so the issue of drag without backreeling is moot for me.
As to fish in the Hudson, i have caught very large carp and sturgeon , walleye to 10 lb, northerns to 15 and stripers to mid teens and never found a need for tackle heavier than
med spin gear and 8-10 lb line.
Bass are not a consideration as a 5 lb lm fights at MOST like a 2 lb Smallmouth and unless in slop, is no challenge at all.
I don't flip or pitch as derricking a poor lm out of chestnut is no more fun to me than digging potatoes.
These opinions are mine of course, and IF these fishing practices appeal to any on this board....God bless.
dick.

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

Dick,
When i was referring to 5lb bass, i meant smallies, as i have way more experience with big smallies than with big largies. Now, when i fish the mohawk and hudson, 85% of the time i am fishing for smallies with 8lb xt and tubes. I havent had the oppurtunity to do alot of that type of fishing this year.
Are you saying that you would have landed the big carp, big striper, or walleye, without a smooth drag? I know whenever i hook a 4 lb smallie on this rig, he makes at least a few runs, that strip out drag. OK, so maybe this is where backreeling comes in to play, but, a smooth drag is still critical - especially 8lb test.
Lance

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

It took forever to resize this damn photo!;

here is a beauty of an hudson river example - 8lb xt, tube

Now he made a few runs

Not a big one, but a nice one, caught at the trophy time, november.

Lance

PS: It was weird how all of the sudden, there was a ton of shortnose sturgeon running up with the shad for two years, and then they went back down in number - but the atlantic sturgeon were always there - weird!

Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:

Now you are talking fish....

"When i was referring to 5lb bass, i meant smallies"

This is the dragon of bass for the people that frequent this board. Slay this baby and you have accomplished something. If there are people here that yawn at a 5 lb. smallie...god bless but in my opinion, this is the guy who will test your tackle and your skill. I have landed one and I did it back reeling while finesse fishing. I am told steelhead are in the same class but I have never caught one. I agree with the comments made regarding bait casting reels. If I had to rely on a drag, it would be one on a baitcaster. Any other thoughts out there?. I like this thread, its a good one.

Laters..

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

Steelhead ARE one of the few fish that fight as hard as smallies. Chromers(fresh run fish), just go absolutely nuts when hooked.

True story - while salmon fishing last year,(salmon river, ellis cove) there was a guy who had landed a number of salmon(chinook), all of which were around 20 lbs(the norm) - he fought all these fish well - he held them in the hole, and landed them without fanfair. He later hooked a 9lb chrome steelhead, and that fish absolutely tore him up.
That fish ran him a very long way down stream, then up, all the time jumping, and running like crazy, with this guy running afer him. The fish finally got off, when it jumped into some brush, 3 feet above the water, and broke the line. That was after a 20 minute fight. It is one of the three greatest fishing spectacles i have ever seen. Another one was also with a chromer.

Lance

PS: everyone deserves to hook a bolt of chrome lightning at least once in their life

Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

geeeze, I guess I missed the back reeling question and answer.

Color me in Mr. Jigs corner. The only thing difference being that I take pliers to my drags on spinning reels and never worry about them again after initial purchase.. If I should have a drag that does slip for some unknown reason I just keep the anti on and palm the spool as if a fly reel. Yes all I use is spinning reels nowadays and it is also VERY rare for me to be using Tectan over 10Lb. or should I say never. Yes, most of my fishing is smallmouth oriented nowadays as well. But in the waters I fish(the rivers not the lakes) it is possible to hook into about anything around every corner. pike, tigers,eyes, browns and smallmouths. I don't use a drag.

I learned how to backreel after seeing a certain fishing show in my youth whre I saw him(Billy Westmoreland) doing it every week. Off I went to tackle carp in back of the house with a "panfish" rod ....I have been a backreeler since. My thinking is if I can take carp to 30Lbs with 4 Lb. test I can certainly do it with normal tackle on bass. The regulars have heard that many times but it is what brought me to doing it.

reminds me of the day I shared the boat with Woody: the backreeling incident that saved his favorite crank on Maho to a GIANT grass carp...long and short of it I took the rod, Wood got his crank back, backreeled the carp until belly up just as I kept assuring him it would do. spinning rod(shorter then I use, low Lb. test etc etc) on unfamiliar tackle to me. First thing i did was crank down the drag when he handed me the rod.

As far as the baitcast crowd goes, one member had it pegged in this thread and am sorry I forget who. Engage the reel when you are at the moment of heartbreak. Control how much line the fish is able to take with your thumb and give them just enough line so that you still are in control. When you are able to take line DO. THIS folks while not being labled backreeling and you don't touch the crank until wanting to take line....is VERY similar to knowing what your tackle can do and not do. WHILE backreeling just a different reel, lighter line and probably a rod with more flex..

Mr. Jig , Earthy and I have seen a lot of questions as to the validity or use of doing it over the years that I have been on various fishing boards....and I have come to the conclusion it just has to be seen to be understood and appreciated.

Trav

Posted by Woody on 2002 PM:

Thanks for the Memory

Always brings a smile to my face when I think about it...Have caught DOZENS more fish on that crankbait....Thanks T
Woody

Posted by GMAN on 2002 PM:

Do it one time...

"I have come to the conclusion it just has to be seen to be understood and appreciated".

Try backreeling one time...good or bad..you will have it...100 percent secret decoder ring Guarantee.....

This will put the leverage of the fight on your side....

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

ok, i guess i got off on a tangent there with the steelhead thing. I am definetly going to try backreeling next big fish ihook, and let you guys know. Being that i will be in cobleskill tommorrow, hopefully it wont be long

Travis, you were able to keep up with a carp, back reeling? Did you let go of the handle when he ran hard? just curious

Lance

Posted by Travis on 2002 PM:

have only had to let go of the handle a couple times 1) with a suprise Tiger Musky 2) same scenario with a huge pike. and even then it wasn't very long as I bowed to both and caught up with them. They both were landed on light Tectan in a river of your choosing from my email

Like with the scenario with Woody above in the thread I have no problem having a carp come in pretty quickly even on light line. Hand on the handle the whole way. They are good teachers. When they want to go, let them go just enough where you are still in control...like a see saw battle..take line when the fish allows it. Turns the tables on big fish that want to act as if not hooked...instead of them going where they want.

Trav

Posted by mr jig on 2002 AM:

i'm impressed Lance.....

Lance. You are to be congratulated If you have any large number of true 5 lb smallies to your credit in those rivers.
Both are wonderful fisheries but i have not found 5 lb smallmouth at all common.

Anyway, back to drag, i find the drags perfectly adequate on all my reels as i make only very limited use of drag as i have explained.
Backreeling has served me well, and i think most decent reels have functional enough drags when you point the rod pretty much at the fish if a long run occurs as might happen with a big carp.
Over the years i have come to rely heavily on back reeling and it's 2nd nature to me now for most freshwater applications.
Thanks for posting the photo and i suggest you tell no one where you are finding 5 lb smallies!
dick

Posted by JPBass on 2002 AM:

One more point on the back reeling issue that everyone left out...........IT'S FUN!!!......as opposed to letting the drag do the work.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by mr jig on 2002 AM:

I'm slow but i think i get it!!

You guys who don't backreel are understandably confused about engaging/disengaging the anti reverse.

Speaking for myself, i engage an anti reverse only when i stow the rod.
What it is good for in most fresh water applications i don't know.

Bear in mind also that the handle CAN be allowed to back spin if your back reeling is not keeping up.
I simply feather the spinning rotor at the bail roller with an extended index finger, thus slowing the freewheel effect. You then re- take the handle as the spinning slows or stops.

I am not advocating that other anglers take up backreeling.
I do think that improperly set drags (too light) cause MOST lost fish due too lousy hook sets.
Anglers also tend to reel against lightly set drags sensing a lack of control.
This practice of course produces a LOT of line twist.
Fish do not break lines Fishermen break lines, mostly through poor knots and failure to regularly trim and re tie.
To get a handle on this , attach your 4-8 lb outfit to your fence, back off to normal fishing distance.
Now i assure you that with the ROD you can NOT break even the 4 lb line.
Accordingly, you can tighten the drag so it will not slip at all with the rod up or on the strike BUT WILL SLIP if you point the tip at the fence and back up simulating a hard run. This setting will still be well below the breaking strength of freshly knotted line.
Now add to this drag approach, the backreel technique and you have bought yourself a lot of control and improved hooksets.

I deny all responsibility of course!!!
dick.

Posted by earthworm77 on 2002 AM:

Mr. Jig, your "tie it up to the fence" theory has me thinking. You are dead on about the line not breaking. My partner Stickman will attest to the fact that the constant abrasion caused by pulling a stuck bait in a tree breaks the line or the line will fail due to a weak know. Pull the line without raking it through the branches and you will pull the boat to the tree. Especially with that Hybrid. Good point there!!!

__________________
www.micromunchtackle.com

Posted by Scott C on 2002 AM:

Mr Jig and Earthy...

This is exactly how I 1) set the drag and 2) stretch that hybrid.

Backreeling has helped me alot this year. Thanks Craig for pointing me in that direction earlier in the season. Backreeling is also the way to go when a big fish goes directly under your boat. I tested this out with a very fiesty Spanish Mackerel a few weeks ago that would most likely beaten me if I hadnt backreeled. Backreeling on those speedsters will certainly improve your skills and make you realize that relying on a mechanical drag would be less than reliable.

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:

When playing a fish as fast as a Spanish mac I'll usually let the drag do it's job employing Mr. Jig's technique of pointing the rod directly at the fish. Those guys are just too damn fast to back reel.

Of course this doesn't work too well when the fish decides to make a last minute bolt under the boat. Nice job on landing that puppy Scott. Back reeling those speed demons is no easy task!!!

Mr. Jig, I like your idea of keeping your fore finger on the spool as opposed to trying to keep up with the handle....I'm gonna try that.

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by Scott C on 2002 PM:

When I first hooked it I was on the drag....but after a few short bursts I switched to BR-ing. It was just too jerky and I didnt feel comfortable. I kept my thumb on the lower part of the spool and did the best I could. There were a few dives that I wasnt exactly joe cool though

No bass fight like that though.

__________________
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Spawn till you die
ESBA

Posted by mr jig on 2002 PM:

JP.

not the spool really.. its the rotor which these days is under the spool flange.
Your finger is stuck out as in picking up line, but the roller keeps brushing against your finger as it goes around.
Clear as mud?
dick.

Posted by JPBass on 2002 PM:

Ahhhhhh, I see, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw....

I'm sure I'll figure it out with a little trial and error...Thanks Dick

__________________

http://www.renegadebassmasters.com

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

Guys, thanks for the tips. I am actually excited to try a new way to control the fish

I am going to go all day tommorow, rain or shine(isnt that a given?). I cant wait to try backreeling. I will be hitting up a few small ponds, and if i feel gumptious, i will be wading the schoharie.

Mr jig, i have only caught a few 5lb smallies, but numerous 4lbs - it seems most smallies in the cap. district top out at about 19-20" - right around 4 - 4.5 lbs.

I will however be more than happy to tell where i caught the few 5's......

Ontario - fairhaven
Saratoga lake
Hudson and/ or mohawk river - lol

Lance

Posted by "Wild Bill" on 2002 PM:

Lance, Saratoga Lake is one of my frequent waters

but usually I get lazy and just fish Fish Creek, starting just downstream from the bridge/launch area, as my sister and brother-in-law have a aluminum dock on the opposite side, downstream a few hundered yards of the launch, but just before it tapers down. Only aluminum dock like it there. I fish the pad fields alot, getting good numbers of LMs, and fish Snake Mtn getting Sms, but never any real huge ones.
If you're serious about 5 lb SMs from there, I love to talk to you through e-mail to find out WHATCHA DOING. Even better, next time your'e going , give me a shout, and I'll meet you, if you'd be so kind to share this info to a catch and release guy. I get some twos and a few threes, but never a five , there !! Clue me in, PLEASE.

__________________
Share fishing with someone .

Posted by Bigredfishing on 2002 PM:

"wild bill", i sent you a PM, let me know if you dont get it.

Posted by "Wild Bill" on 2002 PM:

Lance, Not yet..

or I didn't get it at all.
You talking an e-mail??

__________________
Share fishing with someone .