Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

Central Park Lake 6-16-02

with overcast skies and the threat thundersorms, i took off to central park for some of those NYC "street" bass... i was gonna make a road trip to FDR park in yorktown, but images of large and furious central park bass were dancing in my head...and i wouldn't have to deal with the sunday traffic back to the city if i went to CP...so...

i worked the shoreline cover agressively with 5in senkos...not much going on... with the excepton of a few strikes, the bass didn't seem to be holding tight to the shoreline... so i tried the open water with spinner baits and crankbaits without success... a few light showers came and went and i found myself in one of those small shelters on the shoreline... i managed to get in a groove with a 5in senko and nailed 3 bass there...1 dink, 1 3.5lber(at least) that was heavy and put up a viscious fight!...it took a while to bring him in!...when i did, he shook so hard he threw the hook and my hand!... the last one was 2.9 and came while it was raining...there were about 8 people crammed in the shelter with me... i pitched a senko on the outside of some visible structure and bam!... i let a young boy who was with his mother reel it in and he had the thrill of his life... you should have seen these people's faces when they saw this fish... they just don't realize there are fish in there!

i went on to land 2 more, 1 dink and one more 2-3 lber... all in all, i covered a lot of water and managed 5 fish in 4 hours... not quantity, but surely quality!... another thing to note is that i filed down the barbs on my hooks (NYC park rules) and still managed to land the fish ok...with bass fishing in general, most fish are not injured and are lipped anyway so i don't think it's a big deal... i think the rule is meant for the live bait fishermen and kids, but i figured "what the hell, i'll do it"... i'm not saying that anyone else should, just informing the board of my technique and that the regulation is posted everywhere... i'm sure even more of those "john gotti" bass will end up shaking off now, but it was so crowded there today that i figured it would kind of suck if i got busted... and sure enough, some woman came up to me and started asking questions and looking at my bait... she was friendly and all, but i'm sure she wanted to check out my hook...she even asked if i had a barbed hook... i showed it to her and she was quite impressed...lol

another cool thing happened also... a rowboater asked me if i caught anything and right then, bam!... just freaking poetic!...the same thing happened last week!...i'm telling you guys, something is special about this place...next stop: Harlem Meer on the north end of the park...the fishing supposed to be even better there!

mike

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Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:

Mike, That is so sweet! I am glad that a die hard Basser such as yourself has a local "Honey Hole". Go figure, N.Y.C. Bass!!!

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Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:

hard to believe--the impression is everything is polluted !nice fish--bobn

Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

honey hole is right!... and i just found out that fishermen are allowed to rent rowboats!...so i'll be able to cover the whole lake and get to a lot of nice looking spots...the rental is 10 bucks an hour, but with 2 people it seems worth it.

bob...the park is quite clean...even if the lake is polluted, the perception is that it is nice and clean because someone is picking up trash regularly....its MUCH cleaner than a few suburban lakes i've fished... somebody is doing their job!...good to know my city taxes are working for me!... you guys should try it...it is quite a relaxing place to fish and the urban canyon views are incredible!

Posted by Rob J in WNY on 2002 PM:

Nice, Mike!

Talk about "NY Bass" you got there.

See you on Wednesday. It will be a pleasure meeting you and others I've known for so long, and reuniting with those who I have already had the honor of meeting.

Tight Lines...

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Posted by lastcastme on 2002 PM:

Clas "A" Fish

Hey MikeD,That is a Class"A" fish for a Class"A" guy.Glad you had as good of day as I had last night.Wish you could have seen my face when I saw that big mouth pop out of the water.
Clasic Shock!!!!!!!!
See you Sunday.

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Posted by Scott C on 2002 AM:

Very impressive !!

Will we ever see you on "Longuylind" anymore ?????????????

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

i would love to do an afternoon on cp with you mike. i'll even row.

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Posted by Cityboy on 2002 PM:

Hey Mike,

Nice fish for the heart of our lovely city... I may have to play hooky one day and pop up to the Park. A couple of hours of fishing, and then a spin on the carousel...

Were you fishing the resevior or one of the ponds?

Noam

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Posted by Charlie on 2002 PM:

Congrats Mike!

That was a nice touch with the kid. If a few more people took the time to give these kids a chance, the world would be a better place. You are to be highly commended.

When I worked in the city I was in the Trump Building which over looks the park, I can't tell you how many times I wanted to go down stairs and fish for a few hours. It's great to see that bass of that quality can survive in the city with, kestrals, hawks, pollution and terrorists!

BASS........................... The AMERICAN fish!

Charlie

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Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

noam...i've been fishing "the lake" (some people call it "the rowboat lake")... "harlem meer" on the north end of the park is supposed to be even better for fishing and "the pond" is also available to fish... i don't believe fishing is allowed in the reservoir

here's a link to the nyc fishing info:

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/...fish/index.html

charlie...just think of all those lunch breaks and the possibilities!?... who knew?

fyi...i just got an email from the DEC stating that state regs govern the city lakes...so...no bass fishing all year... no biggie... i hear the giant perch take the same baits!

Posted by airmax on 2002 PM:

mikeD.
sounds like you've been wearing 'em out. nice job. i went out tonight (6/24/2002) at about 7:30. before 9:00 i had landed 5 bass in the 2-3.5lb range. all were taken on 4" senkos. the first fish was a dink around 1lb. while i was getting the hook out of the corner of his mouth (barbed ) the nypd rolled by in a little suv. they gave me a quick once over and noticed that i was putting the fish back in the water, gave me a nod and drove on.

as for 110th street a.k.a. harlem meer. the fishing there is good. last weekend, i caught 2 spotted bass around 1-1.5lbs. i didn't realize there were any up spots in ny! if you are going to head up there, i would suggest a weekday afternoon or early evening. it gets a little rowdy on the weekends with tons of kids and families enjoying the outdoors. otherwise, you will definitely catch quantities of fish, but not the same quality as 72nd street.

let me know if you want to head up there one day after work. i could take a cab up from times square and meet you there. the best areas are around the island, by the swimming pool. there is a really long flat that goes out to the left end of the island, and as of last week, there were still some nice size bass cruising around and chasing sunnies.

j.

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 AM:

Airmax. Spotted Bass? WOW. Are you sure?

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Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 AM:

cool jason!...i'll be in touch!

Posted by airmax on 2002 AM:

yes,
they were definitely spotted bass! i was really surprised too. a guy told me he had just caught one off the point of the island, and i was a little suspicious too. so, i skipped a small white tube under the little rail around the island. before i even had a chance to start my retrieve i got a lot of resistance. i thought i was caught up, but it was a fish. he gave me a really good fight. always pulling downward, and never jumping. then, when i got him in, i took a look at him, and determined it was a spot. he had really dark spots on the upper half of his body, and a much lighter underside. the lateral line was very hard to discern. in addition he had a relatively small mouth for his body size and the tell tale red eyes! a couple of casts later to the same piece of structure, i pulled out another one the same size (around 1lb)! then my wife was ready to go... but, i'm sure they were spotted bass. again, i didn't know that they had such a northern range (in TN we call them redeyes), but am glad to catch them all the same. j.

Posted by Dennis a on 2002 PM:

i think they call them rock bass

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Posted by airmax on 2002 PM:

i've heard them called rock bass too!
however, in TN (at least around Nashville), i have always heard stripers and hybrids called rock bass. we used to catch tons of spots and a similar fish that my friend refers to as "rock bass" wading in creeks and rivers. the fish that he calls "rock bass" look to be a mix between spotted bass and big blue gills. they have a really short body, small mouth style mouth, very dark coloration, red eyes, and a largemouth type girth. very odd fish that put up a hell of a fight! the largest i have ever caught was only about a pound. but, even the smallest ones put up a huge fight. they usually hang out under rock overhangs, and in piles of rocks around current. the fish that i caught at 110th street, had more of a large mouth shaped body, but a little stockier. j.

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

that would be the rock bass..

this would be the spotted bass.

LI has a few pockets of rock bass. mahopac has millions of the f'rs.

roooooooooooockkkkkkk bassssssssss!

robbie

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Posted by airmax on 2002 AM:

robbie.
thanks for the pics. i knew i wasn't crazy . in any case. the rock bass looks like the "rock bass" from TN and the spotted bass is exactly what was caught at 110th street central park. j.

Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 AM:

You learn something new everyday. All I can say is WOW. Never heard of a spot in NY. What do ya know!

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Posted by BassinBilly on 2002 AM:

this pic camr from the DEC page of a true NY rock bass

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Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

the ny rock bass usually hit like a big sunfish, and fights like a fish 3 or 4 times its size. fiesty little f'rs. fun to play with, but a pain in the ask when you are looking for sm's and lm's.

this whole thread is why you should own a cheap digital camera and bring it to every trip. these little phenoms are fun to document for the nybass masses.

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Posted by Cityboy on 2002 AM:

I love that fish are called different things around the country...

For Hybrid Stripers I have heard Wipers & Sunshine Bass.

I like that our Weakfish are Seatrout in the south.

Stump knockers, Shell Crackers...I think those are different names for bluegills and sunnies.

As for the Rock v. Spot. The Rock bass is a pan-fish, see the rigid spines forward of the anal fin, and I'm pretty sure, the Spot is a member of the black bass family. Largemouth, Smallmouth, Spots and Suwanee Bass... I think those are the 4. I know those are the only 4 that count in Southern tx.

I have to admit I am a little surprised they have them in C.P.

Noam

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Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 AM:

central park baby!!... now we just need some smallies there and mahopac will have some competition!...ooooo, i hope i can get out of work early today

Posted by airmax on 2002 AM:

yeah,
i had my digital camera with me, but didn't have time to get it out. i had some trouble getting the hooks out (they inhaled the little tubes) and wanted to return the little guys back to the water. this morning i was fishing CP (only 1@2lb) and talked to another guy who has also caught spots up at 110. he also caught a couple of pickerel at 72nd street! i'd really like to bring one in. j.

Posted by Dennis a on 2002 PM:

the photo bassin billy shows is the rock bass i have caught,the spotted bass to me looks like a small mouth. Dennis

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Posted by BassinBilly on 2002 PM:

There is a very intresting part on the DEC page all about the Sunfish family. Believe it or not Bass is the lowest in the family tree. also crappie are there to.

One question can the lower pond be fished near Central Park South ???

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Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 PM:

yes billy...you are allowed to fish the pond, but not the reservoir

Posted by BassinBilly on 2002 PM:

Thanks

Maybe next week being a holiday week and Brazil will probably win the world cup. I work for Safra bank (%100)Brazilian. I might have some time to hit CP

PS I am Irish and Finnish but %100 AMERICAN

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Posted by bass 64 on 2002 PM:

Airmax

Not that I don't believe you but spotted bass in new york? Please post pictures of them. Its one of those you have to see it to totally believe it situations.

Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2002 AM:

this looks like a job for the NYBTV investigative team... i'll see if i can get some tape of the mysterious NYC Spotted Bass... airmax, i would like to recruit you for this special assignment... email me at the sportscenter office if your interested.

mike

Posted by airmax on 2002 AM:

no problem mikeD.
i'm heading to TN on friday, but would be glad to give a shot when i get back in town next week.

bass 64:
i understand the proof is in a picture. just wanted to share the fact that i am always surprised at what turns up in the park. i'd be glad to get some pics next time i go. but, for some reason i assumed that others had probably caught the same fish up there (from conversations at CP, other local guys there have). so, i'll try to meet up with mikeD and go up there, or next time i'm there alone get a pic with my digital camera and post it for everyone. i think you'll be surprised. i agree though, spots usually like deepwe water (not anywhere in CP), with more clarity (again, nowhere in CP). so, it's easy to see how it sounds unbelievable. but, remember, last year there was a little 3 foot camen (similar to a small crocodile) in there too! j.

Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

This would make it the first occurance in NY

Micropterus punctulatus (Rafinesque 1819)

Common Name: spotted bass (Kentucky bass).

Identification: Moyle (1976a); Hubbs et al. (1991); Page and Burr (1991); Etnier and Starnes (1993); Jenkins and Burkhead (1994). This species was formerly composed of three subspecies: the northern spotted bass - M. p. punctulatus, the Alabama spotted bass - M. p. henshalli and the Wichita spotted bass - M. p. wichitae. Cofer (1995) determined the Wichita subspecies was actually a hybrid with M. dolomieu and is therefore invalid. Maximum size: 61 cm.

Native Range: Mississippi River basin from southern Ohio and West Virginia to southeastern Kansas, and south to the Gulf; Gulf Slope drainages from the Chattahoochee River, Georgia (where possibly introduced), to the Guadalupe River, Texas (Page and Burr 1991).

Nonindigenous Occurrences: Introduced into the Chattahoochee River, Alabama (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.; Yerger 1977); the Verde system and West Clear Creek, Arizona (Miller and Lowe 1967; Minckley 1973; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975); the Arkansas drainage in Colorado (Walker 1993); several areas of California (McKechnie 1966b; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Moyle 1976a; Dill and Cordone 1997); the Apalachicola River in Florida (Yerger 1977; Williams and Burgess, in prep.; museum specimens); the Chattahoochee, Altamaha (Oconee) (Dahlberg and Scott 1971a, 1971b; Yerger 1977; Lee et al. 1980 et seq.), and Savannah (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975) drainages in Georgia; the Iowa-Cedar River drainage, the Middle Raccoon River, Whitebreast Creek, Coralville Reservoir, and Lake MacBride in Iowa (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Burr and Page 1986; Harlan et al. 1987); many rivers in Kansas including those in the Osage and Kansas drainages (Cross 1967; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Cross and Collins 1995); the upper Cumberland River, Kentucky (Burr and Warren 1986); Salt, Osage, Gasconade, and Moreau drainages, and the Lamine, Perche, Loutre systems in Missouri (Pflieger 1971; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Pflieger 1975; Burr and Page 1986; Cross et al. 1986); a pond in Lincoln County (Jones 1963), the Niobrara and Platte rivers, and the Walgreen, Harlan County, and Box Butte reservoirs in Nebraska (Morris et al. 1974; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975); Eagle Valley Creek and Eagle Valley Reservoir, Nevada (La Rivers 1962; Deacon and Williams 1984; Sigler and Sigler 1987); the Pecos and Black rivers and Sumner Reservoir in New Mexico (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Sublette et al. 1990); the Yadkin, Cape Fear, Catawba, and Roanoke drainages in North Carolina (Menhinick 1991); central Oklahoma (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975); the Savannah drainage (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975) in South Carolina (Sigler and Sigler 1987); Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee (Kuhne 1939); the Medina River, and the Colorado and Guadalupe drainages in Texas (Hubbs 1954; MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975); the York, New, Roanoke, and James drainages in Virginia (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Lee et al. 1980 et seq.; Hocutt et al. 1986; Page and Burr 1991; Jenkins and Burkhead 1994); and introduced, but possibly native, to the Kanawha drainage above the falls (New) in West Virginia (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975; Hocutt et al. 1986; Jenkins and Burkhead 1994; Burkhead, personal communication).

Means of Introduction: Intentional stocking for sportfishing. In Missouri, the spotted bass was stocked in the Sac River and spread downstream through the Osage River into the Missouri River (MacCrimmon and Robbins 1975).

Status: Established in most locations. Probably not established in Colorado.

Impact of Introduction: The spotted bass hybridizes with the smallmouth bass when stocked in the smallmouth bass's native range or when both species are stocked in the same area. Spotted bass introduced into central Missouri have hybridized with the native smallmouth bass M. dolomieu (Pflieger and Fajen 1970; Pflieger 1975, 1997; Whitmore 1983). Reportedly, the decline of smallmouth populations in the Moreau drainage in Missouri is at least partly attributable to hybridization with introduced spotted bass (Pflieger 1997). The hybrid has been also been found in the Verde River, Arizona (Minckley 1973); California (Moyle 1976a); and the Marmaton River, Barbour County, Kansas (Cross 1967; museum specimen KU 4682). The form formerly believed to be the subspecies M. p. wichitae from southwest Oklahoma was determined to be this hybrid (Cofer 1995).

Introduced predatory centrarchids are likely responsible for the decline of native ranid frogs in California and for the decline of California tiger salamander Ambystoma californiense populations (Hayes and Jennings 1986; Dill and Cordone 1997).

Remarks: Introduced bass likely affect populations of small fishes through predation. Two subspecies have been transplanted: M. p. punctulatus in Alabama (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.), California (Dill and Cordone 1997), Florida, Georgia (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.), Kansas (Cross and Collins 1995), Kentucky (Burr and Warren 1986), North Carolina (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.), Texas (Hubbs 1954), Virginia (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.; Jenkins and Burkhead 1994) and probably West Virginia; and M. p. henshalli in California (Lee et al. 1980 et seq.; Dill and Cordone 1997), and the upper Chattahoochee drainage in Georgia (JDW, personal observation). Subspecies identity of other introductions is unknown. Native and introduced in the Tennessee drainage in North Carolina (Menhinick 1991). Not listed as occurring in South Carolina by Loyacano (1975) or by Rohde et al. (1994). Stauffer et al. (1995) listed this species as native but possibly introduced in the Kanawha (including the New) drainage, West Virginia. MacCrimmon and Robbins (1975) showed a map depicting this species' native and introduced range.

Posted by Cityboy on 2002 PM:

Hey Bass64,

Is that the cover of Physical Grafitti???

I go to a cafe on St. Marks Place that is right across the street from those buildings.

Noam (Cityboy)

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Posted by bass 64 on 2002 PM:

Why yes it is. I didn't know those buildings were in New york. Nice. - joe

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Posted by Cityboy on 2002 PM:

Bass 64,

Yup, they are on St Marks between 1st Ave. and Avenue A.

I noticed your "when in doubt Texas Rig" tag line... Yesterday, I had very little of my tackle with me, and I wanted to fish bottom in 18-20 feet of water, so I Texas rigged a 5" Senko laminate (watermelon & chartruese)... I had a number of hits and brought up a couple of smallmouth. It was surprisingly effective...so next time you can't get your hands on a jig...try verticle jigging with this set up.

Senkos are not just for wacky rigging.

Noam

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Posted by Paul Mattie on 2002 AM:

There is a great description of a spot and lgmouth in this month's Bass Times. There is simply no way to mistake one for the other, if you know 3 or 4 distinguishing charecteristics.

Posted by theole34 on 2002 AM:

cityboy to get down to 20+ feet try the senko on a ball or football head jig. it works really well. i use that for 25-30 foot mark on ronkonkoma. seems i learned that here.

robbie

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Posted by Mark G on 2002 AM:

FYI on telling identifying Spots from Largies:

1. Jaw Bone. The jaw bone of a spotted bass does not extend past the eye.
2. Cheek Scales. Scales around the eye area, cheek, are much smaller than the scales along the length of the body. On largemouth, the scales on the ckeek and the rest of the body are similar in size.
3. Tongue Patch. Spotted bass will have a rough patch on their tongues. It is important not to use this characteristic by itself, because largemouth can have this patch as well.

As for #3, I've heard that 1% of LMB have patches and 1% of Spots don't. That's statitically insignifigant as far as I'm concerned.

Smallies are easier to discern, as they have vertical stripes and are usually brown, not green and white. Although they will change colors to match their surroundings, so a smallie taken out of the weeds could be a green color.

It's interesting that Spots look so much like LMB, but cross breed with SMB while Stripers look more like SMB (at least if shape and jaw size), but cross breed with LMB. Those combos must put up a whale of a fight!

Posted by bass 64 on 2002 PM:

Mark are sure that stripers and largemouth hybridize? I'm not sure if you are getting confused with a hybrid striper which is a cross between a striper and a white bass. I did not think that it was possible because they are in two different families. Also while doing research on the meanmouth bass(cross between large and smallmouth) it seems that all bass can cross(Except Stripers, different family) but except for Spotted x Smallmouth happens almost never because of the different spawning times and and habitat differences. Further more it seems that bass can cross with sunnies but that happens almost never because of the same reasons as stated above. I think that the Spotted bass x Smallmouth bass happens more often because of similarities in habits and habitats.

Hey city guys, how is the Central Park spotted bass search doing? Any pictures yet?-Joe

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Posted by Cityboy on 2002 PM:

Robbie,

Thank you, I will try that. I have a couple of tx on Swinging bridge this season, and the smallmouth will probably be pretty deep, given the water temps this year...the last tx the water temp broke 80!!! over 80 at the end of June! I have never seen water temps this high this early in the year.

On the subject of Hybrid Stripers... I have been told, and read, that they are sterile, and can't reproduce. But I have also seen young hybrids (3-4lb) come out of swinging bridge 10 years after they stopped stocking...other fisherman have told me the same thing, that they have hit schools of small hybrids feeding on the surface. There aren't any Stripers in Swinging Bridge, and I don't think there are any white bass either. So the only things in there should be the stocked fish.

Noam

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