Posted by GANGGREEN on 2002 PM:
What do they eat....Poll question.
Alright, I intended to
post a real professional poll but being somewhat mentally deficient, I didn't
know how to do it so here goes:
What were the yellow perch that we caught on Sunday at Seneca Lake eating? There were two primary
foods that showed up in a fair amount of their bellies.
Buckshot Jon and Tony on Ice are disqualified from answering because they
probably already know the answer.
A) minnows and crayfish
B) crayfish and various invertebrates (copods, scuds, threadworms, etc.)
C) minnows and invertebrates
D) crayfish and zebra mussels
E) sculpin and zebra mussels
There are your choices gang. Just vote on one option and you may give some
commentary if you'd like. The truth is that some of the perch were eating
almost all of the above options but I believe that they were keying on two in
particular.
Good luck.
Posted by ADKBass on 2002 PM:
answer: C) minnows and
invertebrates
__________________
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Posted by Bass Rat on 2002 PM:
C) minnows and invertebrates
?
__________________
I'm smellin Spring!!!
Posted by GANGGREEN on 2002 PM:
Well, since I'm not getting much play on this thread.....
I might as well just post
the answer.
D) crayfish and zebra mussels.
That probably would have been your last pick, wouldn't it. Surprisingly nearly
every single one of those fish had zebes in its belly. A fair number also had
crayfish in them. Only a small number of fish had minnows and a few also had
that mealy brown mush that would indicate that they were feeding on
insects/invertebrates.
Thanks for playing.
Posted by Meg on 2002 PM:
That definitely would have been my last choice! I didn't know ANYTHING ate zebra mussels, and I certainly would not have caught anything that was devouring those annoying sharp things! (Okay, would have still caught them but maybe released more). We never used to have to wear "lake shoes" as my kids call them, but without them now, you end up with millions of tiny cuts that bear a pain level which approaches that of childbirth without an epidural... No wonder the Seneca perch are sumo-sized-an abundance of zebes. Thanks for the info Bill.
Posted by Pete L on 2002 PM:
Gangreen - I thought
nothing ate zebra mussels, and that was part of the problem with them. Since
they are in such abundance, how much effect have they had as a food source.
Pete
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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and
"mental illness."
Posted by GANGGREEN on 2002 PM:
Don't really know Pete.
The biologists are aware that both yellow and white perch along with several other species DO eat the things but I don't know whether it takes the place of other foods or just fills their bellies. The question that I have is, "if the zebes filter out all the crap in the lake, does that then mean that the perch would have higher phosphorus levels, etc. in their flesh and if so, are they still safe to eat?"
Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:
pete--i told you!!they may wind up in the zuppa de pesce yet--bobn
Posted by TONY ON ICE on 2002 PM:
The Poll.
Hey Bill..... I feel discminated
by being disallowed to answer the poll question :^)
Truth is with Seneca
lake perch and perch
in an body of water that contains Zebra Mussels...they do eat them as a main
source of food when the opportunity arrises !
Perch, much like their relatives the Walleyes (who also ingest zebras in large
numbers) are lazy fish and would rather lay in one spot and let the forage
drift into their waiting jaws than to chase it. This being the case, the zebra
mussels are the perfect choice of food for a lazy fish and the perch will eat
them until their bellies explode !
Those little mussels swim around in small clusters that look like clouds in the
water. They just don't attach themselves to something and never move again. They
consantly search out the type of water that they will benefit from.
Actually, perch are low on the list of fish that feed primarily on the zebras
but they still do their fair share of the eating.
Sheephead (fresh water drum) all of the sunfish species, catfish / bullheads, burbot,
white perch and carp in that order are the most aggressive zebra feeders with
yellow perch, rock bass, smallmouth bass (Yes...smallmouths eat zebra mussels
!!) sturgeon and suckers rounding out the list.
Bill, Your theory that the zebras filter the water and hold the nutrients is
absolutely right and that's why the perch and walleyes in Oneida lake and lake Ontario are so healthy.
I'm sure it has something to do with the growth rates in the Finger lakes too in recent years but the
Seneca, Cayuga, Keuka perch have been spectacular since long before we ever
heard of zebra mussels.
In Oneida lake, the perch feed on them heavily
when the zebra mussels are in their larval stages before their shell is hard
and that starts right about now but in Seneca, it takes a lot longer for the
water temps to rise to the neccessay levels for the zebras to start ther
changes.
Sometimes when you see that ball of brown /green mush in their mouths or
bellies, it's the larval zebras all ground up.
In the warmer months, the sheephead and sunfish take over as the zebras main
enemy as they both have those shell craçking teeth in their throats that aloows
them to feed on crustaceans as their primary source of food. If you squeeze the
belly of a freshly caught Oneida Lake
sunfish in the summertime, you can feel the shells in their bellies and sometimes
it looks like they've swallowed a golf ball.
We never saw this 10 to 12 years ago before the zebras were introduced....then
again, we never saw 10 inch sunfidh either untl a few years after the zebras arrival
!
A pain in the butt for water intakes, outdrives and lower units...and yes Meg
they do cut your feet but I'll deal with those small problems in exchange for
healthy, faster growing fish which leads to better spawning results and better
fishing !
I've always said God bless the zebra mussels !
Our so called biologists have been telling us for years how detrimental the
zebras were and how they would ruin the fisheries across the country if not
kept in check.
After wasting millions of dollars on research instead of listening and learning
from the DNR reports from the European fisheries biologists, our researches
came to the conclusion that the zebra mussels have cycles like most other
living things and they are beneficial as a food source to most species of fish.
They also found out that the zebras seem to control their own populations
somehow but it hasn't been determined yet how they do it.
There's a million answers out there but I'm convinced that the zebra mussels
are the best thing that's happened to the great lakes and some inland lakes
like Oneida.
LONG LIVE THE ZEBRA MUSSEL !!
__________________
TONY B. <*)}}}><
Posted by Sea Jack on 2002 PM:
WOW!!!!!
Bill I was under the impression that crawfish don't come out until the water
warms up a bit. That they were being eaten really comes as a surprise. Guess
that explains why brown jigs are hot. Thanks for the info.
That actually surprises me more than the zebra mussels, which I didn't know
about.
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Posted by bobn on 2002 PM:
never realized that these fish were capable of crushing the mussels shell--good for them--this may be something positive about this fiasco--bobn
Posted by GANGGREEN on 2002 AM:
Thanks Tony.
I knew that you'd have the straight skinny on the zebes. You and I have talked about this before. I also know that the mayflies (white flies) and the submerged weeds are back on Erie thanks to you know who. I think that the problem is that the zebes actually have the potential to make a lake TOO sterile. But as for now, I'm on your side, they sure have helped the smallmouth fishing in a lot of places.
Posted by OnceBitten on 2002 AM:
On a related note...
I talked to a DEC officer
a few years back and he said that they had found that the crayfish in Ontario were feasting on the zebra mussel
excrement. That helped trigger a population explosion of crayfish, and that's
been a huge boon to the smallmouths that feed on them.
Interesting stuff.
Posted by Scott E. on 2002 AM:
quote:
Originally
posted by Meg
We never used to have to wear "lake shoes" as my kids call them,
but without them now, you end up with millions of tiny cuts that bear a pain
level which approaches that of childbirth without an epidural...
Meg,
Now there is an experiance I will never know, nor want too!!!
But I will have to remember that for an excuse in a few months when Tina says
"Its time", I'll have to tell her that I am going to Seneca to walk
on the zebes, just to experiance her pain
__________________
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---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted by wnybassman on 2002 AM:
Huh, I did not know that!
Learn something new at NYBASS everyday
A side note about craws and cold water. Last late December on Conesus we deep
hooked a couple of our smallies, and Dale being a person not to waste anything,
retrieved the floating fish and took them home. Anyway, after opening them up,
he discovered they were loaded with FRESH crayfish, long after most of us
thought they have burroughed into the mud for the winter. Granted, it was an
unusual fall, but the water that day was down to 41-43 degrees.
Point being, nothing surprises me anymore
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Posted by Bassin Dude on 2002 AM:
One of the problems with the Zebra Muscle is that it filters out much of the CONTAMINANTS in the lake. When eaten by a gamefish, the contaminants move up the food chain. As you may know, DDT moved up the food chain and had an effect on many predatory birds whereas their egg shells where too soft preventing them from hatching. At this time it isn't known if the "contaminated" Zebra Muscle will have an adverse effect on a fishes health, it's nesting success or if it will effect another animal further up the food chain... like humans.
__________________
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"As my own fishing seasons wind down to a
precious few, it's nice to know I'll be there, be there as long as I can. As
long as I can bait a hook and make a cast, as long as I am living, I intend to
be fishing."
-Ron Schara
Posted by Sean Heitman on 2002 AM:
Re: The Poll.
[QUOTE]Originally
posted by TONY ON ICE
[B]
Truth is with Seneca
lake perch and perch
in an body of water that contains Zebra Mussels...they do eat them as a main
source of food when the opportunity arrises !
I have always thought those little buggers couldnt be all bad. Some people were
thinking the Zebra muscles would wipe out the base of the food chain. But if
they are helping to produe more of thier own excriment for other living things
to feed on and helping to produce more Craws....think of that long term growth
on the higher food chain species!!!!
Someone mentioned the effect of contaminents on up the food chain and making
the fish bad to eat and effecting the birds.....I say feed them to the
Cormorants!!
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Posted by Meg on 2002 PM:
Tony,
Thank you for the info on the zebras- that was very enlightening. I had no idea
the true impact they have on the fisheries. I suppose I will simply put up with
the cuts and stop complaining... We have a float out every summer, and in the
fall, when we bring it in, the chain securing it to the lake bottom is so
encrusted with zebes that they cut through every type of glove. The diameter of
the chain, usually one inch, is atleast six inches in the fall.
Scott,
My friend, congratulations-you too Tina! One word of advice, and I promise that
is all I will ever give, GET THE EPIDURAL!!!! I always enjoyed listening to
women say they had "natural" childbirth. Trust me, anyway it comes
out is natural! Bill Cosby wrote a book, maybe called "Fatherhood"
that was a phenomenal read. My abdominal muscles ached for weeks due to
laughing so hard. Good Luck to both of you!
Posted by GANGGREEN on 2002 PM:
I'll second the epidural.
I've never given birth
myself but I played a women who did on TV. Actually, when our first son was
born my wife refused the epidural and I would have rather been beaten by
several Mafioso thugs than to watch her do that again. When our second son was
born and the doctor asked my wife, "do you want an epidural?" she
didn't hesitate for one second before saying "YES". The experience
was no less amazing the second time around, only less painful for her (and me).
Good luck Scott and Tina.
Posted by TONY ON ICE on 2002 AM:
Zebra mussels
Meg.
Onondaga lake in Syracuse was one of the most polluted
lakes in the country until about 5 years ago. Suddenly this lake was freezing
solid in the winter for the first time since the 1960's.
Used to be that in the summer months, if you didn't have air conditioning and
lived northeast of the Lake, you had to keep you windows
closed because of the constant stench coming from the lake.
Now....the lake is cleaning itself out with the help of the billions of zebra mussls
that have found their way through the river systems.
Now the only smell is during the annual tunover just like other lakes in the
northeast.
You can see the bottom of this lake in 30 feet of water where you couldn't see
down one foot ten years ago.
Baitfish populations are at all time highs and so are the amount of trophy fish
including smallmouth bass.
Several smallmouths in the 7 lb range were measured and tested during electro
shocking field tests a few years ago.
One walleye that weighed in at 14lbs 4 ozs was also recorded.
Last winter Onondaga lake had over 13 inches of ice on it and I rode my
snowmobile all over the lake with confidence and caught unbelievable numbers of
quality fish of just about every specie.
All of this turn around can be credited to the lowly zebra mussel. No other
action has been taken to clean the lake other than the factories can no longer
dump theor waste in the water.
it was thought that Onondaga lake would never be a place where we could even
wet a line again not to mention eat the fish ! In August of 2000, the DEC and
the FDA conducted toxicology tests on just about every specie of fish in Onandaga
Lake, Oneida Lake and the Oneida and Oswego Rivers.
Fish were electro shocked and put into holding tanks but they mixed all the
fish from the different waterways so nobody knew what fish came from what body
of water. End result was that 98 % of the fish tested the same and the only
fish that was a little higher in toxins was the catfish. They have always been
known in the Oswego Rivewr to contain more toxins than any other waters in the
area and two of the six catfish tested had elevated levels of toxins.
Knowing the history of the lake, I'd never eat the fish from there unless I was
starving (now that you've met me, you can see that isn't an issue) or desperate
but I do know an old black guy who's been eating the fish from Onondaga Lake
and the waters of the outlet since he was a kid and I mean he eats a lot of
fish from there. He's 81 ears old, wears no glasses, has all of his original
teeth and is hair is still drk without any grey !
He's as healthy and strong as a bull ! Go figure !
I live 1 mile from Onondaga lake and can now enjoy catching tropy fish in my
back yard and even closer to me than Oneida lake so again I say.....
"LONG LIVE THE ZEBRA MUSSEL" !!
__________________
TONY B. <*)}}}><
Posted by OnceBitten on 2002 AM:
Only on NYBASS,
could a poll on the
eating patterns of perch degererate into a discussion of drug free child birth.
Not complaining, just a little surprised.
Posted by Scully on 2002 AM:
Greenman
The answer would have to be D
My aunt lives in Camilus. When she got older (into her 80s) she had periodic
feinting spells. Nothing could wake her up until nature ran its course. One
evening while out for a drive with my uncle she had one of her
"spells". My uncle, who was driving (thank God) immediately sped up
to get her to the nearest hospital. Suddenly my aunt....bolted up-right in the
passenger seat and screamed....Get me away from this f-----g lake....are you tring
to kill me? The "nasty" smell ommited by this offensive body of water
had accomplished something that up to that time nothing else had been able to.
The lake of course was Onondaga. True story.
Over the past ten years I have spoken with numerous (more than two) biologists
who have blamed the Zebra's for everything, from global warming to the attack
on the World Trade Centers. At the moment the little 'cuties" are
improving one eco-system after another. This is why they are considered so
"beneficial" in their home range....Eastern Med...Agian and the Black
and Caspian Seas.
PS Greenman....I peeked at the answer.
Scul