Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-06-2004 10:07 AM:
Candy Cherry Popped
Well, I finally got a chance to fish Candlewood. Andrew Bornn and I head up to CT. on Saturday to get our feet wet on Candy in preparation for our upcoming tourney on the 12th. We were greeted with overcast skies and water temps in the low to mid sixties. Our goal was to cover a decent amount of water and to catch fish on a variety of techniques.
It is always nice when you start of the day with double header Smallies. Here is Andrew with our fish:
The majority of the day was spent catching Smallies all over the lake. We probably got about 2 limits each of those hard fighting puppies. This 4lber, that Andrew was fortunate enough to land, fought especially hard!
But where the heck were the Largies? Well a couple of them made an appearance as well, including this one just short of 3lbs.
We enjoyed super light boat traffic as the overcast kept the pleasure boaters down and there appeared to be only a small # of small tournies taking place. Should be interesting to see what next weekend brings.
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-06-2004 10:19 AM:
so now that you're fishing tourneys, these reports are getting downright generic!....we don't get the techniques or locations!?... of course I understand, and am busting balls, but it ain't the same huge!...
i have an idea... can we get you on the NYBASS staff?... we'll give you all the baits you want in exchange for not fishing tournaments and giving full reports with pictures... no blurred backrounds, no "all over the lake" references...whattya think?
oh yeah... make sure when we shoot your Lunkerville episode, we don't go to any of these tournament lakes....
where are the pits when we need them?
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-06-2004 10:23 AM:
Mike...we really fished all over the lake. I am not being a smart ass when I tell you that I would have to take out the map to tell you where we caught them. As far as blurred backgrounds...I think there is something wrong with my camera...and we don't want 5Bass to get any ideas! LOL!
Techniques...as you might guess...topwater, cranks and plastics. You don't need to ask...Senkos and/or imitations were not employed.
How is that? 
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by Rob J in WNY on 06-06-2004 10:26 AM:
John,
Pretty tempting offer from Mike there...
I'm sure Andrew and you would make a good showing at a tournament. Hope to see that report someday, with you two placing well.
Great report and photos! I loved seeing them bronzebacks showing up in it. 
Tight Lines...
__________________
"Have Smallies - will travel!"
Bass Fishing in WNY - A Personal View
> email - RobJinWNY@hotmail.com
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-06-2004 10:29 AM:
i'm just playing with ya... the offer still stands though
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by JOHN G on 06-06-2004 01:40 PM:
I have to agree on Mike with this: from my point of view it is a worthless report, nothing more than bragging....
when I did my Candy report I named every cove, point and Island that I fished.....
also, there is no mention of time, depth, water qualities....nada......
there is so much you can say about a water like Candy without giving away the ship:
for example: we were fishing tight to Greene island with senkos....period!
you don't have to say: go 2 clicks up the western shoreline from the southern tip till you reach GPS points so and so and drop your Color #98 5 inch senko 10 feet in front of the laydown you will see there......
Candy is one BIG F@#$ing PLACE!!!!
it could be generally narrowed down without going into real specifics.....
and John: I'm sorry to say this, but any other blurred shoreline pictures that you post on NYBass will be deleted.....
sorry to be so harsh, but the main idea of this forum is to inform, something that you were incredibly great at last year......
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by joe p on 06-06-2004 02:30 PM:
uh, oh.....Hugefish...uh oh........
honestly, John G....I dont think Hugefish's report sound any different from say, someone on the reservoirs 'bragging' their exploits or, like another example, even your Wampus escapades.....for tournament guys like Andrew and Hugefish, I think the information in his report was sufficient enough to satisfy the curious, without giving everything away.....besides, even if Hugefish specifies the location, temps, conditions, etc...how sure are you that the information is not bogus.....
one important piece of information that I need from Hugefish......find any good weedlines?......did you catch fish from grass?.....
nice job....
Joe
Posted by dodgeguy on 06-06-2004 02:36 PM:
good question joe!!!how do we know any information is not bogus?trust i guess.
__________________
chrysler master tech and avid fisherman and i don't fish no stinking drop shots!!!
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-06-2004 03:30 PM:
John, it is your board so it is your perogative to do whatever you want. However, since you voice your displeasure so publicly, I will publicly voice how silly you are being. I gave the water temperature and general boat traffic conditions. After some ribbing by Mike, I gave the techniques that we employed. I am trying to make a compromise by posting at all. Would you prefer that I didn't post at all...like most other club guys do that pre-fish??
quote:
Discuss hot spots and share your favorite water hole. Fishing reports also go here.
Did I not discuss/brag about the fishing that is available at Candy??????
BTW...the shoreline that was blurred out is not discernable. It was simple gamesmanship.
quote:
there is no mention of time, depth, water qualities....nada......
Really?
quote:
We were greeted with overcast skies and water temps in the low to mid sixties. Our goal was to cover a decent amount of water and to catch fish on a variety of techniques.
quote:
Techniques...as you might guess...topwater, cranks and plastics. You don't need to ask...Senkos and/or imitations were not employed.
John...I understand as well as anyone what your are trying to accomplish on this site...trust me. I will stop posting my pre-fishing all together on this site. I can always brag on BFHP! LOL!
Regards.
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by Wild Bill on 06-06-2004 04:51 PM:
Wow...
You know, when I read the first report by HugeFish, I thought it was decent enough post, as I have never fished Candlewood yet...then he took some "heat", and he added more...
I think HugeFish did a nice report once again, especially considering it was a PRE-FISH for a TOURNEY...
Yeah, he is not going to 'tip his full hand' as if he was fun fishing on a small pond.....Many "tourney guys" never seem to post stuff, especially pre-fishing days.
Of course, the owners and staff of NYBass have the right to do anything they want here....
__________________
Share fishing with someone...
Posted by Gregg on 06-06-2004 05:46 PM:
quote:
I am trying to make a compromise by posting at all. Would you prefer that I didn't post at all...like most other club guys do that pre-fish??
I have to agree with Hugh, at least he is posting reports and pictures.
__________________
Gregg
Posted by Paladin on 06-06-2004 07:46 PM:
John G. There you go again.....
Huge your post was just fine. Looks like your coming over to my side of the pasture.... Bah bah bah .....
__________________
How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not Anywhere At All?
Posted by Bassin Dude on 06-06-2004 08:02 PM:
Wow, those are some nice fish Huge and Andrew.
Good luck in the tourney!
__________________
Tony
"That man's nuts... GRAB 'EM!"
Posted by JOHN G on 06-06-2004 08:20 PM:
Huge: Wampus is 30 acres.....not much to say....Candy is another story....
what is wearing me down, or has been lately, are the blurred shoreline pictures and I should have mentioned something about that previously rather than just blurt it out as I did.....
secrecy is a right of every human being: but what I have always stressed is that if you want something to be secret, then don't talk at all about it!
the spirit of this board is supposed to be sharing..especially on this forum and on Tackles and tactics.
Paladin , this is something that you still haven't grasped yet....so, really, there is nothing to applaud for Huge coming over to your side of the fence.
this will soon degenerate into a tourney vs non tourney, because that is how everyone loves to twist things that I say, but I will say only this: LAST YEAR WHEN HUGE WAS NOT FISHING IN A CLUB HE NEVER BLURRED ANY PICTURE OF SHORELINE OR BACKGROUND IN HIS PICTURES..........
there have been MANY fishing trips that I have made this year where I did not post a single thing about, upon request of the individuals that I was fishing with...but if I do post, I am prepared to give at least a modicum of detail or more and will also answer questions specific to what I did or did not do.
Ct is legal fishing right now, NY for the most part , isn't......
and Candlewood is a lifetime of learning and any input is gladly accepted......
John, since you are a friend, I will apologize publically for not explaining this to you off board, but now that it did come out, I please ask people to avoid secretive or blurred picture posts in any way. If you don't want people to really know where you were or what you did, fine, just don't post about it.
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by Paladin on 06-06-2004 08:24 PM:
"Here Here"
congratulations John... I know that was hard, but you did the right thing. btw there are two sides to my fence.
__________________
How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not Anywhere At All?
Posted by Benj on 06-06-2004 09:25 PM:
ATTENTION!
Notice to all photographers,
Spin the boat around to reveal the "open water" as the backdrop!
__________________
And the flowers bloom like madness in the spring
Posted by One Under on 06-06-2004 09:49 PM:
As an unbiased observer and someone who probably represents the average person who frequents this site, I would have to say John G is being a little too sensitive here. Huge consistently has proven his reports (pics too) to be well above average here on the site and quite forthcoming with details. The guy posts one report that is not spilling over with details, drowning all who read it in minutiae and he is attacked for it? That's not fair.
John, I understand you want this post to be 100% disclosure as the norm, but it ain't going to happen.
P.S. Huge what type of underwear were you wearing? Boxers or Briefs?
__________________
That's all I need - Caddyshack
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-06-2004 10:22 PM:
John, I appreciate your response...but one other thing.
quote:
LAST YEAR WHEN HUGE WAS NOT FISHING IN A CLUB HE NEVER BLURRED ANY PICTURE OF SHORELINE OR BACKGROUND IN HIS PICTURES..........
Since you applied the ole CAPS LOCK YELL, I must point out that your statement about last year is absolutely 100% false. I blurred out pictures last year on several occasions.
I don't see how me not posting about my pre-fishing is going to benefit the board, but if you prefer that I tell and show all, or not post at all, then I opt for not posting.
I will post my pictures of my little shore excursions to my local ponds. Quite frankly, I am quite certain that most on the board would rather see blurred pictures of Candy, than a detailed analysis of my 1 hour trip to Burnham Pond. LOL!
I will try not to drag this out in public anymore. If you want to discuss further...you have my number.
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by Wild Bill on 06-06-2004 10:34 PM:
"huge"...fess up
come on, tell it all......
did you blur out senkos too.......LOL
Sorry, buddy...could not resist the urge ....LMAO
"and all these photos had Senkos blurred"....{LOL}
all in fun......
__________________
Share fishing with someone...
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-06-2004 11:04 PM:
Wild Bill...don't be silly. Although I did see a bunch of Border Collies rounding up some of the Senko throwers out there. LOL!
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by Wild Bill on 06-06-2004 11:29 PM:
that's bAAAAAAAAAAAd....[lol]
but had me cracking up... I love the levity !
PS..Huge, your PM box is FULL.....
__________________
Share fishing with someone...
Posted by Woody on 06-07-2004 07:15 AM:
Great Job Huge
As Always...
I think the fact that people are fishing competitively escapes the mind sometimes.
Look at the Tournament Results for this week. Did you see Pat,Mikey D,Blue,JP,Dean , Paladin or any of the "other" Tournament guys post about prefishing?
I think both you and Joe P are REALLY the only guys who do...and should be commended.
John, When I prefished Zoar with you I would have never posted a report.
Huge has been a shining star here for a couple of seasons.
Huge, I want to congratulate you on your amazing success in your first year fishing larger bodies of water.
(Just a look from the other side of the fence Doc)
Woody
__________________
www.BergenBassmasters.com
www.baitswhileyouwait.com
www.hookerztackle.com
Posted by Bass Rat on 06-07-2004 08:11 AM:
Huge, I thought the report was fine. I like to see your anti Senko fish.
PS- No need to Blurh the shoreline. I beleive in full disclosure, as in my rescent trip to the "Milky Way". Water temp -275, Clear sky, I used a Weightless Crank Bait.
__________________
The Big Yellow One's The Sun
MicroMunch Pro Staff
Elans Pro Staff
Posted by JOHN G on 06-07-2004 08:19 AM:
at least everyone still has a sense of humor! LOL....
looks like I took on a Demi-God here! HAHAHAAH....
Huge is right, no need to belabor it here......
I just ask everyone in the future to avoid "retouched" pictures as I don't think they reflect our spirit here.......
and PLEASE: give a little bit of direction when posting about a big water.....
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by Gregg on 06-07-2004 03:49 PM:
Gee who needs to blue background
__________________
Gregg
Posted by patx on 06-07-2004 04:33 PM:
(John G/Mike - sorry to do this to you, but I cant watch something that I have been a part of for many years go to sh*t, and it is..........)
Wow - can you imagine if these local club TX's actually meant anything???? Too much negative energy for a topic that is pretty silly. These are local club events guys, last time I checked, there isnt anyone (with the exception of Mike D) here on NY BASS that claims "Professional Bass Fisherman" on their W2.
I agree with John, which quite frankly is the reason that I really dont post much on NY BASS anymore. This used to be a place that allowed a bunch of people to get together and fish - some experienced, some not - but that was the beauty of the "OLD" NY BASS. Now, we have every guy that thinks hes Roland Martin posting about the "$15.00" he won at a local club event - big friggin deal. Win a national event, THEN brag.
Realize that I am a TX guy - have been for years both on the club and Federation level, but now as a NY BASS member (well, kind of - its getting old to be honest), I VOTE to get rid of the TX forum. The bragging, the patches, the stickers, embroidery, bogus sponsors - ENOUGH ALREADY. Its this kind of garbage that has dried up the professional bass fishing industry.
John/Mike, please get us back to our grass roots - this is ruining your board - its really not that fun anymore. Its simply a place for every "Joe Lunchbucket" to spat crap. Its no longer educational. There are places for this type of thing, but if you allow this stuff to continue, you are changing your original purpose - you have strayed. It is your board, but I THINK you value my opinion, and I wanted you to have it infront of the members. And yes, I know that I will catch sh@t for it too, but then again, I really dont care.
Realize one thing men - we are ALL just a bunch of weekend hacks, and as far as I am concerned, there isnt much to brag about . Read Scully's post about our last TX - very informative, very precise and thank you Ray. That is a true NY BASS member. And oh BTW, Ray has pleanty to brag about - fished Foxwoods, ran the Northern division for Smallmouth Magazine at one time, and has pioneered techniques in this area of the world like Wacky Worm fishing. That man is a legend, and Im greatful to call him friend - but has ANYONE here ever seen him brag???? The answer is NO.
Ok - let the abuse start -I really dont have much to loose anyway here. I guess I can just continue to not bother as well - ala, the Howard Stern arguement - "If you dont like it, just dont tune in!"
John and Mike - please think about it. Its time to stop this stuff before this turns into a TX board, and God knows there is enough of those out there.....
Peace - Pat X
Posted by JPBass on 06-07-2004 04:38 PM:
I was using a 2 and 13/16ths inch green pumpkin tube which had faded a little from the sun with 5/17ths of an inch missing from two of the legs. The jig head was 1/8 oz. but the hook was sharpened twice so it probably weighed a little less..............If I could only remember which lake I was on!!! LOL
Sorry John, just couldn't resist.
Huge, I like your reports.
__________________
http://www.renegadebassmasters.com
Posted by Bigdog on 06-07-2004 05:35 PM:
What's funny about this whole deal is my son and I ran into these two guys at the Sqauntz ramp on Saturday. All they could talk about was the "4 lb smallie" and the one guy was telling the other guy "show them the picture". Big deal! We had a pretty good pre-fish also but we weren't showing pictures at the ramp! The kicker is my son and I work hard all week and we only fish on the weekends. We pre-fished Saturday for a Sunday tourney and it's a good thing we had a good pre-fish! The fish we found were gone on Sunday. That's the way it goes sometimes!
__________________
Bigdog
Posted by Bass Rat on 06-07-2004 06:50 PM:
JP, I beleive your on Greenwood. LOL
__________________
The Big Yellow One's The Sun
MicroMunch Pro Staff
Elans Pro Staff
Posted by Bass Rat on 06-07-2004 06:52 PM:
"If you dont like it, just dont tune in!"
Geeze Pat I wish you got that enthusiastic about sharing some useful info. That's the longest post you made this year. No disrespect intended. Just speaking from the heart.
__________________
The Big Yellow One's The Sun
MicroMunch Pro Staff
Elans Pro Staff
Posted by Bigdog on 06-07-2004 06:52 PM:
JP, That spot does look like Fox Island on Greenwood.
__________________
Bigdog
Posted by JPBass on 06-07-2004 07:19 PM:
DANG!!! You guys are good!! It is Greenwood!!
Guess I'll have to get out the blurry pencil. LOL
__________________
http://www.renegadebassmasters.com
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-07-2004 07:56 PM:
no abuse needed pat... this is an interesting point of view you have presented and is worth discussion...
as many know, we have always tried to focus on the "pleasure" aspect of the sport and not be a website centered around competitive fishing... but the club fishing discussions are important, i believe... it's a big part of bass fishing in New York and shouldn't be neglected... i don't think it's ruining the board... that's why there's a specific forum for that stuff... i tend to agree that the whole "pro staff" and check cashing thing is really nothing to brag about, but what's wrong with guys going out and enjoying a little local, competetive fishing and discussing it?... do you honestly think that is the reason you don't participate on the board much anymore?... i don't think so, pat... any discussion can be had here; it just takes someone to start it... why are you comparing professional bass fishing to club fishing?... are you saying that anyone who competitively fishes tournaments wants to be a professional?.... i'm not sure about that... what about people who golf or bowl?... you may enjoy the sport but do you think everyone wants to be a professional?
i think there is plenty of good-natured fun going on here at NYBASS... and to use the Tournament Forum as some kind of excuse to not post at NYBASS is a little weak...
pat...listen; i hear you on a certain level... there is a ton of play on the internet for the competetive fisherman... and john and i will continue to focus NYBASS on the pleasure, sharing and comaraderie aspect of the sport; hence john's issue with the blurring backrounds, etc... but we cannot deny the club fisherman a place on our site... it just ain't right.
i see no problem in guys bragging about winning some small event... or catching a big fish... no problem, whatsoever... and actually, i'm not sure there's actually been much bragging to tell you the truth... i think you may be getting worked up over nothing...
this is the deal: NYBASS is no longer 1 forum: Places to Fish... that was essentially the only active forum here for a while... now the others are quite active, with the Off-Topics and Tournament Forums getting quite a bit of action... how about this: just visit the forums you like!... and start a thread or reply to threads in that forum.
i realize that the tournament forum is a place that can get a bit tense, overly-competitive or just downright have a tone that is not in-sync with the nature of NYBASS... i have only seen this a few times and truthfully it is no worse than some of the things said in Off-Topics... that's why moderators are important!
this is bass fishing... we at NYBASS choose to illuminate what we always have about the sport: fun and friends... but lets not forget about the rest, because it's important also... club fishing is fun and IMPORTANT... maybe it doesn't seem important to a pro or semi-pro, but i believe it is very important to many, many members here... so my vote is:
LET THE TOURNAMENT FORUM BE!
ps... this topic, more than any, shows the importance of johnG as moderator at NYBASS... without direction, a board like this COULD "turn to shit" as pat states... but through john's guidance, we remain the friendliest bass fishing board on the internet... i challenge anyone who shares pat's opinion of NYBASS to find another board that has as many sharing and friendly members as NYBASS.... anyone who finds this "BASS BOARD SHANGRILA" will get a years worth of SCENT A STRIKE, free!
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by ttony_5 on 06-07-2004 08:16 PM:
Guys
I've watched this thread unfold and thought I'd jump in now.
I really have to admit that I almost never post here anymore. Reason? With all the TX stuff, I feel like just the fun posts about where how and why I fish just doesn't seem as important.
That is a shame. With the exception of the post about bringing my son out last week, I can't even remember the last post I made.
Let's keep the TX stuff in the TX forum and who knows, maybe we should add a BS forum for those who want to brag.
My thought is that Places to Fish is the most (or should be the most) relaxed and lenient part of this site. So I agree with John about being open about where and how and such and blurring backgrounds.
It's like a softball league, it's almost an oxymoron. I played very competitive ball for most of my life and was an all-american in college. When Iplay softball now ans hear guys get all worked up, I just laugh and tell them if they were any good, they's be playing ball somewhere else...and getting paid for it.
Same thing here, TX's are important but let's just keep it in perspective and more importantly, keep it in the proper forum on this site.
Just my humble opinion.
__________________
Tony
Have Skeeter will travel.
Posted by dodgeguy on 06-07-2004 08:33 PM:
hey tony,i always read your posts about fun times you had!!!i enjoyed all the ones you wrote.keep it up guy!!! my titicus posts are just fun fishing also.
__________________
chrysler master tech and avid fisherman and i don't fish no stinking drop shots!!!
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-07-2004 08:47 PM:
tony... i agree, that the tournament stuff should stay in the tournament forum... but i don't understand the "i don't post anymore because of the TX stuff"... that makes no sense to me... why would that stop you from starting a thread or replying to a non-tournament thread... i don't understand... please explain.... your posts are important... i truthfully don't understand... are you saying that when you use the "search for new posts" feature, you come up with too many tournament threads?... and that is annoying to you?... just wondering.
please...other members should put their 2 cents in; in a constructive way, of course.
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by Paladin on 06-07-2004 08:53 PM:
Examples of Bragging
I agree with Pat X regarding the braggadocio of the so called pro staff nonsense that exists in the undercurrent here. I myself have been spanked for making fun of the over use of the term pro staff
However, I am having trouble finding posts in the Tx forum that have that bragging tone Pat mentions. Can someone point me to an example or two besides the HUGE & 5BASS pissing contest that is nothing more than friendly banter?
__________________
How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not Anywhere At All?
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-07-2004 09:06 PM:
i agree with paladin (wow, did i just say that! )... i think this whole TX bragging thing is a minor issue at best, a non issue probably... when i scan through recent threads all i see is an abundance of various themes, most which are interesting to me... remember, the number of posts has doubled in the last 6 months and if you actually read every new post when you visit each time, it would take quite a while!... so this board is quite different than it was last year in the amount of threads... i know i cannot read every thread and i try to visit several times a day.
now... who else agrees with pat and tony?... because this is important... i don't want to put anyone on the spot, but pat did open up this can of worms, so i'd like to see some real discussion before john pulls it ..DOH!
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by ttony_5 on 06-07-2004 09:09 PM:
Mike
This no reflection at all on you or John but NYBass is changing. Better? Worse? Who knows but I'm just saying that there is a trend developing here and it's really unfortunate.
I am a self-admitted critic of all people. I wish I wasn't but I am. It gets to me when people start to try and position themselves above others.
I'm not pointing anyone out in particular but it seems to be a "sense" I pick up on the board lately.
Maybe guys like me are the problem and the natural progression of angling is to get good enough and start doing tournaments.
I've only fished a few tx's but the reason I do is to get an idea of just how much I'm improving. I have to admit that I really enjoyed the aspect of competing and when I did well, I truly reveled in the self accomplishment. That's why I really respect guys like Ray and Pat and Mike. These guys have really had some significant accomplishments in the sport but you rarely, if ever hear them brag about it or even take a condescending tone when disagreeing with someone else about tactics or approaches.
Maybe we're all getting to know each other too well and are breaking shoes more than we should but I feel there are way too many "experts" on this board and it gets a little taxing after a while.
Like I said, maybe guys like me are the problem.
BTW, tell me really. On any significant body of water, how often do the 1st and 2nd place guys employ the same tactics to have success? Rarely, if ever. So what's the big deal about what lure you used and what temperature the water was or how deep they were. Especially this time of year with the weather changes, things vary day to day, if not hour to hour.
Sorry to rant, but I'd just as soon share the info because after all, I've fished when everyone is just beating the banks and you know what? The best anglers always find a way to win. Senko vs senko or otherwise.
Let's all just go back to learning and having fun.
BTW, I'll be on Mahopac on Wednesday and look out for my post. I'm not a sore loser.
__________________
Tony
Have Skeeter will travel.
Posted by ttony_5 on 06-07-2004 09:14 PM:
OK forgot one thing. In my line of work, I've learned over the years to never, EVER, use email for making any kind of a point that could even in the smallest way, be taken in the wrong light. It's just a crappy medium that carried no emotion other than what the reader puts into it. Therefore, one person might take something in a angry tone when someone else just looks at it as completely objective disagreement.
Having said that, my revelation is that this board is nothing more than glorified email. We all need to vent every so often and why not here?
I've had very few heated disagreements on this board and am only giving some insights as to what I "pick up" when reading some of the posts.
OK, philosophy class over. Back to fishing.
Mike, let me know when you want to get out on my boat. We can film an episode of "Braggerville"
__________________
Tony
Have Skeeter will travel.
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-07-2004 09:54 PM:
hey tony... now we're getting somewhere... very interesting point you have there; which is said over and over and over, but not over enough: the written word, in email or PM or post, can so easily be misinterpreted that it is worth remindinding members... even if it is just the slightest thing, a post can be mis-construed as aggressive or confrontational when in fact it may be sarcastic or just plain not well written.
i get the feeling that yours and pat's gripes are with a few people and not the majority of tournament posters.
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by NewGuy on 06-07-2004 10:09 PM:
Well said Tony...
Fellas, I'm a more of a reader than a poster and feel that I could just about see all of your sides.
Not being a Tx guy, just a casual angler, I thought Huge's first report was sufficient, now I don't own a boat and maybe will never navigate Candy the way some of you do, so blurred backgrounds mean didly to me.
I was impressed with the Quantity and Quality of fish caught for his first outing on the lake. Those of you who fished Candy before must have had similar success at one point or another.
Obviously, because it was pre-tx he felt the need to conceal his locations...wouldn't you?
I don't know Huge at all, but his posts and reports and pictures have been the MOST consistant of all posts and pictures and I enjoy reading them all.
Now, I've said it before...I always try to gleam a little info here and there from everyone as far as type of lure, pattern and etc....but to actually try to Triangulate the approximate body of water in which the species was caught....I don't know.
I hope the issues seriousness fades into posts like the one from JPBass(fellow floorcoverer), but more than that I hope no fences were put up.
Peace fellas.
Bob
__________________
NYAngler@hotmail.com
"I don't even know enough to know that I don't know..."
Posted by Wild Bill on 06-07-2004 10:22 PM:
I am sorry to hear guys feel they no longer want to post here, especially the tourney guys, as guys that fish as much as many of these tourney guys do[between the pre-fishes, and the T's], we all can learn MUCH from.....
I have had the awesome pleasure of fishing with TTony on Mahopac[my first time there], and have had many conversations and e-mails with Pat for few years now, and seen a few of his presenations....and these guys ROCK as anglers..and of their knowledge of bass fishing , and fine points of it all, and it is surely a LOSS not to see them posting here anymore, as I have personally bettered as an angler due to these two guys, and others here too...Surely would hate to see "HugeFish" stop posting, as I glean his posts for that "tidbit extra" each time...plus crack up at his ''anti' Senko posts.
While I can understand the tourney guys of ANY level not wanting to post "time sensitive specifics" about an upcoming tourney lake for any reason, I still hope they can join in the 'overveiw' discussions of ALL aspects of the fishing forums, especially both the one about discussing angling waters....and the tactics and techniques one, where 'weekend anglers' like myself have a chance to benefit, and better our fishing adventure, or learn of NEW waters to try... PLEASE share the knowledge with us "putz" anglers...and then compete against 'the OTHER hot sticks' by using YOUR well honed presentations, masterful boat control, and DEEP knowledge of the sport/hobby of Bass fishing.
I post ALOT, and share what I can, with LOTS of specifics with DETAILS of lures, or spots....but NEVER consider myself a pro, or hot stick.....but rather just a guy that LOVES bassing, and one that will share it with others. BUT..., I share my stuff, not OTHER guys stuff...If I am fishing with Joe P, per se,[and he NEVER said not to, nor has anyone else either}....that angler is gonna post what he did, not me, of any REAL details.
When I DO fish with TOURNEY guys, I never really go into specifics about THIER tactics or spots....only mentioning MY choies of lures and tactics, and the catches. I have had the pleaseure of going as a backseater as some tourney guys from this site, and others, were pre-fishing, and I would not mention what they were doing, surely, as I would not wish to tip their 'time sensitive ' info. To me, that is just being 'courtious' to them...
Just because Joe Pido , or Leigh, or TTony , etc were fishing ONE way when I fish with these guys, I may fish another from the backseat, as that one chosen by ME may be where I feel I have a 'strength' as an angler personally, not what they are doing and have honed themselves. For me to mention detailed specifics what one of these guys where doing, and/ or where....HMMMM...doubtful I would see a tourney guy's backseat again.... This perspective based on what I have seen NATIONWIDE as a backseater.
Granted...I have fished ONLY a real few tourneys, and did them for FUN, not money ever, enjoying it as a day out fishing witha buddy. Sure wished I had won a Champion though....wa, wa, wa...LOL....but never thought I would...but had one HUGE hoot trying with Al Hager last year.
So sayeth the 'backseat hoohah'.....{LOL}.
__________________
Share fishing with someone...
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-07-2004 10:31 PM:
Wow! Get a sense of humor people.
Pat...I can speak for myself when I say that I certainly don't think I am any Roland Martin. "Bragging"...just happy that we did OK prefishing. "Proud" that we did OK on our first trip to Candy. Sorry...but everyone that posts about their trips is doing some form of bragging. I post the good and the bad, including two embarrassing skunkings on the Rockland Lake jon boat circuit last year.
Also...to everyone..don't read into any banter that goes on between 5Bass and myself. We have known each other since Elementary school and are just playing around. Quite honestly, I really think many are trying to create an 'ugly' side that doesn't exist in all cases.
For the record the blurred backgrounds were done as a goof. Nobody would be able to tell jack from them. Childish perhaps, but really meant in good fun, and to generate some responses....I guess it accomplished that! LOL!
BigDog, as far as you on your son go, get the facts straight. You were about as friendly as a door, and it was you son that initiated the conversation. Don't make it sound as if we can running over to you. My buddy, who gets as excited as school kid over fishing, asked me to show your son the pictures of his 4lb smallie, but I sensed you wouldn't care, so I didn't bother.. Forgive us...we are just a couple of "Pond" fisherman that may be a little over enthusiastic in our first year of club fishing. A 4lb smallie is a fine fish for us.
If we run into you again, we will try not to bother you, or tell you what we got them on. Just make sure your curious son doesn't ask..or we may show some enthusiasm. God Forbid!
Keep your lines tight and loosen the drags on your minds people...I am just trying to have a little fun, post some pics, and bash on Senkos..........
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by JOHN G on 06-07-2004 10:58 PM:
well, I missed a lot on here! was at the movies with my wife and Scott to see "the Day after Tomorrow"....it was simply fantastic, and this global warming thing is NOT a joke.....
anyway:
this thread HAS to continue, because it is important for some people to air out their views on some of the things being said on here....
Pat: I appreciate your input and TTONY, the same goes for you buddy!
I think, at the heart of the problem, if you want to call it a problem, is that a large contingent of the original "core" anglers on this board, are no longer REC fishermen, but have gone on to competing....
ie: Joe Pido, Woody, Hugefish and so on.......
since many of these guys are, as I said, core members and have contributed a ton over the years, it is only natural that NYBass also has to evolve somewhat to reflect the fact that many members have joined clubs and of course, many great members have always been in clubs.
to deny representation to all of those people would be to just kill this board completely...
HOWEVER: what seems to be the case is that there is a time and a place for everything. That is why we have a tournament forum.....
I agree, that Places to Fish has always been the most informal aspect of this board and always my favorite section. As such, it should remain a forum that both gives and gets information. Guys from clubs who are prefishing big waters for their upcoming events, please limit your posts to the tournament section and if you do post on Places, then please, as I said, be just a little bit more giving and in the examples I gave, there is plenty of general information that can be given without going into the real specifics as some of the posters have joked about ( ala the hilarious one by JP).....
and as I said way way back: if you don't want people to know what you did when prefishing then PLEASE: don't post at all!!!!
LET ME DELVE A LITTLE INTO THE PERSONA OF THE COMPETING FISHERMAN:
bear with me on this, it is important: there are many people who sweat blood fishing some of these waters like Candy and Lilly, which are notoriously tough at times...they are paying entry fees and other big expenses, and often the only thing they have to show is a bad day and long lonely ride home with the trailer.
when someone comes on here, supposedly, fishing a water for the first time and posts incredible pictures of fish that other recent competitors just couldn't manage to find when they had fished it, and when the posters blur backgrounds on top of that: it just plain makes them feel like SHIT!
NOBODY IS FISHING THESE LAKES COLD!! there is an underground information exchange that goes on and will always go on, period, just a way of life in many things. I will leave that at that......
I do care about the feelings of all the members, and before some jackass comes on and says: " aw, were somebody's feelings hurt".....just can it, because as I said , I do care and I have the responsibility of looking out for the most and least at the same time on here.
ANYBODY WHO HAS DRIVEN 4 TO 6 HOURS IN ONE DAY, HAD A HORRIBLE DAY ON THE WATER AND SPENT OVER A 100 DOLLARS ON GAS AND OTHER EXPENSES CAN RELATE TO WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!
I elect not to put myself through that torture, but that is my choice, yet I will staunchly defend the rights of the many members who do choose this, and one of those rights is to make sure that there is no misinterpretation of certain posts that May be construed to be rubbing it in in any form or shape. It is up to ME to determine if maybe that element is present, and I am far from perfect, but my intentions are always coming from the heart.
trust me on this!!!!
Posts on the Places to Fish forum that delete backgrounds or in any way confuse what happened will be deleted , it is that simple.
if somebody posts on the tournament forum , that is a different story: there, everyone is a competitor and everyone has a similar desire not to divulge too much info , which is their right. Should someone contact you off the board requesting more info, then you should decide what you want or not want to say....
so in the future: if you are fishing a main water specifically prefishing for your upcoming tournament, and you want to post about it, then go ahead , and if you want to show pictures of your best fish, fine, but post it in the Tournament section please!
This way, if anyone reads such reports in Tournament Forum, they know beforehand, that information will be given out on a very limited basis.....
but on PLACES TO FISH: fine to brag, fine to show pictures, but you must avoid any confusing info and blurred pictures or otherwise........
sounds like Solomon wanting to cut the baby in half! LOL.......
however, I do welcome more input on this thread, but I think what I have said is a great compromise.
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by Gregg on 06-07-2004 11:06 PM:
Perspective
10 people will read the same post and come away with 10 dfifferent views on what was said and how it was said. that's just how it is nothing you can do about it.
Remember it just FISHING, can't believe how upset some people get over a post or being deleted. GEEZ what are they going to do when something REAL happens in their life...
I'm a rec fisherman who fishes to RELAX and thankful to
nybass for having made me a bunch of friends to fish with.
__________________
Gregg
Posted by Bigdog on 06-08-2004 01:26 AM:
My apologies to Huge and his partner for misinterpreting there attitude at the ramp on Saturday. I was tired after a long day of driving and fishing and was ready for a shower and dinner. I usually have a personality like a "door" at the ramp after a full day on the water. I didn't mean for my post to sound negative, just meant to point out that pre fishing is pre fishing. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't.
BTW, pretty nice boat for a "pond fisherman" LOL!
__________________
Bigdog
Posted by HugeFish4 on 06-08-2004 06:11 AM:
Big Dog...apology accepted. I will try not to refer to you as a "Door" anymore. LOL!
__________________
...and none of these fish were caught on Senkos!!!
My Home Page
Welcome to Les Nas Mada
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-08-2004 08:10 AM:
nicely said johnG and gregg... same for bigdog; we all have our moments!
i, like john, am anxiously awaiting other member's opinions on this topic... especially regarding the perception by members of NYBASS in 2004; and if in some way the TX stuff is causing members to post less or not engage in discussions... jeez, as i typed that, it sounds even more ridiculous than before, but it's obviously an issue for a couple well repected members.
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by Bass Rat on 06-08-2004 09:46 AM:
From my perspective I love all the fishing reports. And especially love the photos. I would rather see some nice photos and a breif report than some thesis on bass fishing. I am looking for light reading and jovial banter on this site. And I have certainly found it.
For those of you that don't know me here is a little background. I am 39 years old. Married & father to 3 beautiful girls. I live on LI, Ny. I fish with Outcast Bass Anglers. I fish 12 club tourny's and another 10+ opens a year. I LOVE competitive fishing. For me recreational fishing doesn't compare. Not to say that I hold myself in higher regard than anybody else. But for me competitive fishing is like watching a football game with freinds with a freindly wager. Which for me always makes it more enjoyable.
I would consider myself an adequate fisher at times and downright shitty at others. I am constintly learning. And through competitive fishing find myself getting a little better everytime out. You know failure makes you much better than success.
I have had my share of run ins with people on this board. But honestly, everyone that I ever had a problem with here, I would now consider to be my freind. It all seemed to work itself out over time.
I find no offence to people posting as much or as little information as they please.
The important thing is that they post. I find it much more offensive and selfish for people to stop posting at all.
The different views and perspectives is what makes a good community. And for members to deprive the site from their input is just plain selfish. Don't think I don't notice the obvious absence of some of the long time regulars because I do and it's a shame.
To name a few: PaulM, Castaway, ScottC, Senko Sam, PatX, FrankM, basserachi, Yankeesrule & Baron Von Senko (Unless they're fishing with John G).
And as far as the pro staff stuff goes. I was asked by my freind Craig of MicroMunch to be one of his reps for his small bait company. I was honored to do so. I fly his company on my signiture proudly. I in no way subscribe to the delusion that I am a proffesional fisherman. Do all guys that wear sport jerseys think their pro ball players. "Just because you ride a horse , it don't make you a cowboy". I do however take my small $15 tournaments seriously and try to do the best I can. By preperation, reearch, practice, and dare I say, by emulating my idols. If that's a problem for some, too bad. I didn't realize following your dreams was reserved for people who put "Proffesional Fisherman" on their tax forms.
I hope I got my point across without ruffling too many feathers. AHHHHHHHHH, who am I kidding, I don't realy give a crap. I love this place no matter what.
Nick
__________________
The Big Yellow One's The Sun
MicroMunch Pro Staff
Elans Pro Staff
Posted by Lpbassman on 06-08-2004 10:16 AM:
VERY WELL SAID MR. BASSRAT!
I could not agree more.
__________________
"early to bed, early to rise--fish like hell and make up lies"
Posted by Skeet on 06-08-2004 11:14 AM:
I have been reading this from the start delaying to see where it was going.
My first thoughts were that John must have left the valve on the laughing gas open..... I could not understand why he was attacking Huge over his post. I did not even notice the pictures were blurred and thought he was talking about the "Lilli picture."
Yes Huge's post was vanilla but what do you want????
Pat, I guess I missed the post on how and where you caught your fish in our Mahopac Buddy last year. Please include the bait, depth, line size, and locations. The fact of the matter is that there is no way he is going to give up that information nor should he feel guilty about it. He has spent the time on the deck of his boat in good and crappy weather to learn a subtle difference in the bottom contour that holds fish. Yes, he may say. "he caught them with a jigging spoon on a 30' hump" but what made that hump better than the others?? What made one section of the hump better? Was there a big rock or log on the end of the point or hump which held fish??
My point is that everyone "blurs" their pictures a little bit. You have too. I have some rocks and logs that I found buried in weed beds at Candlewood. Yes, they hold fish most of the time. No, there is no way I will ever tell their locations. I spent way to much of my time and money to find these "sweet spots."
I will just say, "I caught them in the weeds," again just "blurring" my picture a little bit.
Disclaimer time... Pat, I hesitated using your name in my post. I don't like using a person's name in a post since it seems like I am singling them out. I am not trying to single you out in any way, just merely pointing out that everyone "blurs" their pictures a little bit.
__________________
Gary K.
Micro Munch Tackle Pro Staff
Posted by Scully on 06-08-2004 11:46 AM:
will add a bit.....
For me, my outlook on fishing has changed over the years. I began as we all have, 'fun fishing'. In the late 70's I was bitten by the "Tournament Bug", thanks to Bassmasters Magazine and the TV show. I fished my first tournament in June of 1979 as a guest of a now defunct club in Nassau County, Long Island, and low and behold I won. I was hooked on tournament fishing......or so I thought.
I fished 2 Red Man Tournaments in 1981 and was unlucky enough to have drawn to 'a-holes' as partners. Their complete disregard for me as the non-boater and their ultra-competitive attitude almost turned me off to the sport. I am competitive as the next guy (at least I usto be) Played organized Football, Basketball, Hockey and Baseball until I was 39 years old. I also golfed and bolwed on a regular basis. My wife usto say that if they invented a game called "underwater sneaker" I would have wanted to play that as well.
It was about this time I joined a club, but after two years there I left due mostly to the "clique" atmosphere and the their unwillingness to share what they had learned. I stood up at one club meeting and voiced concern over what I perceived as selfishness and was shot down by anglers who voiced the oppinion that "I was not entitled to the information that they had spent so much time and effort compiling". Most of the club felt this way as well. So Dom and I left and formed a new club, one that is to the best of my knowledge, completley open. Let me quote from our club by-laws.
Article #1 Section 2 Purpose.
To improve our bass fishing skills through a fellowship and friendly exchange of fishing techniques and ideas. To cooperate in unison as a "Team" for the general welfare of the club and its membership. Failure to embrace the "Team" concept of the chapter by either holding back or refusing to share information with a fellow chapter member shall result in immediate removal from the clubs membership. Such a breach of chapter etiquette will be dealt with swiftly and decisivley.
I know the nature of the beast and there is no guarantee that everyone in the club is telling you the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". However, we listen carefully for conflicting signals and when we find one, we address it. You dont share, spots, baits, whatever....your gone.
It is my personal oppinion that to hold back, or not share information with fellow anglers is just plain 'silly'. I will tell you everything and anything you want to know no matter who you are. The one thing I wont do is pass on information that has been related to me by a third party. I agree with Pat that most of us take ourselves entirely TOOOOO seriously, at times myself included. It's fishing. competitive or not. It's not you against me, it's me against the fish and far too many anglers miss that point TOTALY,..... IMHO.
Over the years I have been asked by countless companys to represent their products for a "sponsorship" agreement. I have always said no, simply because I personally dont want to be beholding to anyone. I do have a "Viper Spinnerbaits" logo on my shirts, but thats only because I make them. If I catch something on your product, I will talk/write about it. The last thing I wanted to be called is a "Patch Boy". That is the name B.A.S.S. pro-s have lovingly bestowed on us amateur anglers who wear shirts full of logos and patches. Larry Nixon once said that until you have accomplished something at the professional level you should, in his opinion, refrain from looking like a "billboard".
I like the tournament forum, especially since I am the one who recomended to Frank two+ years ago that we have one. I do believe that all pre-fishing trips, tournaments and any and all tournament related threads should be kept in that Forum. Thats where they belong. I enjoy keeping an eye on the other clubs and what they are doing. I enjoy looking at the clubs TX results. Even though they are just results with no "beef", there is much that can be learned from them.
I would like to see more threads similar to mine, westernybassman, and Rob.J in Western NY. Post exactly what you did during a tournament day regardless of the final results. These posts are great reads, informative as well as light hearted. This site nybass.com has always been about the fun in fishing. Thanks to Mike, the Imperial Wizzard, John-G an absolutley wonderful careing man and a host of others, this site is still the only one I go on. I may not post as much as I once did, but at the moment that cant be helped.
To please everyone is just plain "Mission Impossible".
Scully
Posted by patx on 06-08-2004 12:03 PM:
Gary,
Since you did name me, let me address it directly.
Use the archives feature to find out why some humps are better than others in Mahopac or any other lake since I have been spilling my guts on this board for over 6 or 7 years now, as well as publishing these same facts in a nationwide publication for 7 years as well. I also spent a day this winter giving a very down to earth seminar at NY BASS - were you there for that? Im not sure, but if you were, I hope you found it informative - perhaps you weren't.
Is there anyone here that can claim that I have not given back to NY BASS? Can anyone say that I do not share? Perhaps you may not be aware of my involvement in the sport in a local way, and why should you. Who am I as it relates to bass fishing? I am just a weekend guy as well, but I do know that I have spent MANY hours typing on this board, and I am offended of the tone that I have not given here or anywhere else. I have spent HOURS teaching people in public, in private, on Internet boards, on television, on radio and in print. Can you say the same?
Since you are relatively new to the board, you may not know that, but perhaps if john G or someone else that has been around for a while chimes in, and since your tone obviously does not believe me when I say I have given back, a third party's involvement might be what the doctor ordered. Perhaps not - either way is fine with me....
By the way gang, I never mentioned anyones name (I dont think anyway - I have to review my post), and after spending approximately 45 minutes on the Phone with Mike D'avila, I also told him that I did not have any one person in mind as much as a general tone of the "new" NY BASS, and that I thought it was a shame. I still stand by that - sorry for the hurt feelings, but the truth is the truth.
Mike wanted me to write a post about the things we spoke about since he saw where was coming from, but I question whether or not its worth the time since the thread is now turing into this - which I guess I fully expected.
At the end of the day - "If I dont like the music, I can simply change the station".
BTW - if anyone else feels the need to address this, and wants to address me personally, my email address is:
pxiques@cablevision.com - feel free.
If you still want to do it on the board, thats fine too. I look forward to the possible discussion.
Sadly, I feel like I should wright the epitaph of NY BASS rather than explain myself.
Respectfully,
Pat X
Posted by Scully on 06-08-2004 12:07 PM:
you missed it.....
Skeet
FYI....Pat ALWAYS posted exactly what he was doing on many occasions. I believe in Archives you can find a few regarding the Haloween Fall Classics as well as a number of others. In addition he has taken out MANY members of this board on Lake Mahopac, Lake Oscawana and Whaley Lake and has shared his techniques AND spots with them. God knows how many tons of Yamamoto plastics he has given away to these members as well.
Scully
Posted by ttony_5 on 06-08-2004 12:13 PM:
I don't think we need to step in an defend anyone here. Anyone who has been on this board for any period of time knows the guys who consistently share info and those who don't so let's keep personalities out of this. I agree with Pat about this being more about the general tone of the board versus compalining about any one or two guys in particular.
First of all, Pat has become one of my closest friends over the past few years and most of that is because of the time we spend together in the off months, but let me say that he is a big, big reason why I persohnally have improved so much as an angler. Four years ago, I didn't even know what a biatcasting reel was and now I can say with clear confidence that I won't embarass myself in any tournament. I may not win, but I can certainly make a good showing.
I think the real point here is not whether you post or not just that if you do, post it properly. If you don't want to share your spots, baits, etc, then just don't post about it.
I think we're getting to the end of a really long rope here. Anyone else agree?
Ray, when you gettin' your fat butt on my boat?
__________________
Tony
Have Skeeter will travel.
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-08-2004 12:17 PM:
i just got off the phone with pat... we had a long conversation on the matter... although we are in disagreement on several issues, he did have some interesting points that are worthy of discussion on the forum... he is a very busy man at work these days, so he may not be able to reply very soon, so i will take the liberty to present one of the issues that we discussed and open up the forum to replies... i hope pat doesn't mind, but i think it's an important subject; one that wasn't really addressed in pat's first post... it's this:
the whole "pro-staff" issue... now many of you may think it's innocent... john and i have said before that we think it's a silly title for someone who's not a professional bass fisherman... but pat has an interesting take on it: that it devalues what real professional bass fisherman have to go through to become actual professionals... the fact that most professionals dedicate their lives to the sport, make very little money, have to leave their families for long periods of time and downright work their butts off to put that word "pro" before their names should be respected... and the fact they also work extremely hard to get the few measly bucks they can from a sponsor should be appreciated...and for a club fisherman to put the word "pro" in his name as a "pro-staff" member just dilutes what real professionals have to do to get there... i have to say he has a point there... hey, there's nothing wrong with representing and promoting a company that gives you free baits to fish with... but what do members think about people using the "pro-staff" label when they are in fact recreational fisherman and not actually professionals?... i've made myself clear in the past: i think it's silly... but does it go beyond that?... is it deceptive or unfair to real professionals?.... should a club fisherman be able to use the title "pro staff" or "sponsored by" when they in fact just get free baits and in some cases only discounted baits from these companies... should this be a title that is reserved for people who actually draw an income from the company?
my vote is yes... the words "pro" and "sponsor" should be reserved for those who get paid... now, if it is just a small amount of money, that is still ok in my book.... they are getting paid.
i hate to ruffle feathers, because i know a lot of good friends here use the label on the signatures... and i also use the sponsor title extensively on this site and Lunkerville... but i'm curious to hear others opinions on this... this is a bass board after all, and this is the stuff we should talk about.
mike
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by Theole34 on 06-08-2004 12:20 PM:
huge and andrew-
so you had a great day on candy. nice. keep up the catching!! you guys are a force to be reckoned with.
keep the pics coming.. blurred, clear.. whatever.. just keep showing the fish.
__________________
-------
-------
---Robbie "TheOle34"®™
N40° 45.232 W73° 01.394
Posted by ttony_5 on 06-08-2004 12:21 PM:
OK, new rope.
Let me say first that there are very few guys here that I don't get along with and I don't know who puts pro on their sleeve and who doesn't but my thoughts are simple. Mike and Pat nailed it. Any non-professional who takes that title is really gotta be joking. End of story, I'd suggest that they just take the title of "representative". Calling oneself a pro really does demean those who dedicate time and effort into earning that prestigious title.
My $.02
__________________
Tony
Have Skeeter will travel.
Posted by Hookset on 06-08-2004 12:42 PM:
NYBASS
NYBASS members, just some input from a daily visitor to the board. In my humble opinion I believe this is the best Bass sight I go to. It's down to earth,knowledge sharing, friendly tone is just what a weekend angler like me is looking for(especially during lunch at work). Share what you want,take away what you need and just keep fishing!!!
Tournament pro or weekend angler, I don't care, I can learn from anybody.KEEP POSTING!!!
P.S.- Hugefish, if you still fish Harriman I still have alot to learn, keep posting!!!LOL!!!
Hookset
(absolutly no offense intended to anybody,anywhere,anytime)
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 06-08-2004 12:43 PM:
thank you hookset...
pat, aren't you taking the issue a bit too seriously by writing the epitaph of NYBASS?.. c'mon man... give us a little slack here
__________________
Lunkerville: Real People, Real Fish Stories!
Posted by Skeet on 06-08-2004 12:44 PM:
I agree with you Scully...
The key word in your statement is SHARE.
It is a two way street. Some anglers fail to realize this and think they can just suck information from you without ever returning the favor. That I have a major problem with.
For me, I admit, I am guarded with my spots. Early in my fish days, I used to tell too much. But soon figured out that from most, I was not getting the same back.
There are a few people who I share information with but this trust has taken years to establish.
Scully, I have one question....
When your club members share information is it specific or that I caught them in 6 to 8 feet of water in the weeds on a jig n pig?
If you consider that sharing then I think all of us do that... but if you were to find a submerged log in a 100 X 100 yard weed bed, what do you say??
1. I caught them in a weed bed
2. I caught them off wood
3. I caught them off wood in the weeds
4. I caught them off wood in a weed bed in Smith Cove.
5. I caught them off wood in a weed bed in Smith Cove. The log is in 8' of water, 30 yards from the shore, just out from the green house. I will show you next time we are on the water.
If your club is #5, then that is really, really good. My guess is you are somewhere near #3 and #4.
My definition of share is #5.
__________________
Gary K.
Micro Munch Tackle Pro Staff
Posted by Skeet on 06-08-2004 01:08 PM:
I will start by saying, I am sorry for mentioning Pat directly in my post. I did not intend to offend you in any way.
Pat may or may not be a #5 (see my above post) I have no idea.
I do not go to this web site to search for specific places to fish. For me, my drive is to find these honey holes on my own. Otherwise why prefish?
The point I have been trying to make is that there are different levels of sharing. So to me when Huge blurred out the background in his pictures it really is not that big of deal.
Besides my brother, I have only met two other people who were #5's.
I will give you an example of a "type 5 person".... After a tourney, this person came in with a nice sack of fish. I struggled. I asked him how he caught them and said jump in my boat and I will show you. The next hour or two, we spent fishing together.
Personally, I know I am a #3 or #4 at best. I am only a #5 for the above 3 people I mentioned.
__________________
Gary K.
Micro Munch Tackle Pro Staff
Posted by Woody on 06-08-2004 01:58 PM:
There are a few folks who are # 5's
Pat is DEFINATELY one of them. My other "mentors" know who they are...I just got off the phone with one.
I just wanted to say thanks for helping this knucklehead have so much fun...
Woody
__________________
www.BergenBassmasters.com
www.baitswhileyouwait.com
www.hookerztackle.com
Posted by Scully on 06-08-2004 02:23 PM:
a little of 4 and 5
Skeet
I understand completley. I would expect that most of the members in my club are #4's, but there are many #5's, and I suppose a few number #3's....unfortunately.
Here is an example. Last evening was our club meeting. It is customary for the "Top 3" teams from each event describe in detail the how, what and wheres of their success. Of particular interest was the East Twin Lake tournament where a new club 5 fish record of 23.11 pounds was set a few weeks back. The winners described how they caught the three (3) five pound + largemouth they weighed in. #1 came on the first blowdown on the left as you go through to the West Lake. #2 came off a log sitting in a group of pin reeds just before the narrows in the West Lake and # 3 came off a bed close to a mooring buoy before you enter the West Lake.....thats a #5 guy
The lunker for the tournament was a 6.03 largemouth caught by the second place team. He caught the fish on a Spinnerbait off the edge of the boathouse a few hundred yards from the ramp on the left. Another #5.
I will always give you everything (#5) and hears why. In a club, it always seems like the same ten (10) anglers finish in the top 10 every year. It gets booring. By giving the 'have nots' the scoop so to speak, you increase their chances of winning and in dooing so the overall coppetition in the club increases. All of us were not created equal...some anglers will never have the ability to compete, others need a push, still others need to be led by their nose. Nothing turns off a clubs membership (IMHO) more than the same people bringing home all the gold and silver.
Some guys dont know how to visualize or put things together, pattern wise. In fact many doent understand the concept...totaly. By explaining (shareing) the information, everyone benefits. I have seen the results bear fruit on a yearly basis. I just cant show up and expect to win...hell, or just finish in the top five anymore. My brother always complains that I tell them too much and perhaps I do. I have been lucky enough all my life to have had a "nose" for finding and catching fish. Others are not as fortunate. It's nice to be able to pass down all that I have learned over the years....it genuinely is.
Scully
Posted by JOHN G on 06-08-2004 02:32 PM:
well, I wanted more input and has it ever come on!!
Let me go through a few:
1. PatX: anyone who has fished Maho regularly over the last 5 years knows what a fountain of information and baits and colors Pat has been to anyone he meets on the water.....I might remind, that Pat also spoke at our NyBass seminar this FEB at no fee, and that Pat IS a semi-pro as he does do paid seminars.
but Pat: like Mike, I say to you, don't write us off so soon, because I see all the happy faces at all the getogethers, recently the one at Candlewood and in 2 weeks the one at Whaley and I have to say that there is much good coming out of NYBass and still is, the amazing amount of friendships that have been spawned here is overwhelming at times....
2. Nicky: love you man! you have such a cool attitude, wish more were like you.....
and even though I am putting some of my dear friends on the spot: I agree with you: Many of my fishing buddies are NOT posting regularly anymore, including the people that you named, that is a fact!
3. Scul: this man personifies what sharing is all about....he is the ultimate #5.......anyone who has known him or fished with him will tell you that..... I also wish that he would post more, but Scul has a million things on his table, so I understand that he can only come on in spurts.....
4. Hookset: you have an attitude right up there with Nicky! you are informative, helpful, get involved a lot and also I am convinced that if there wasn't such a great distance between us, that you would be a fishing buddy to many many of us here, certainly including me!!
If I am so lucky to be vacationing down in your parts one day, and It will happen, I would love to share boat time with you!!!!
if you read many of my views on information from time to time, you will see that I never stress people having to share exact information.....If I am going on the water, say, at Osacawanna and you tell me "hey, hit the deep weed edges today" then that is more than enough for me.....I don't need to know exactly what edges, I will find them for myself that is what fishing is all about. We don't need every nook and cranny in a report.....but telling someone what lure you used is not giving away anything! because , I could tell you that they were hitting brewers worms, but there might be a host of people that would try it and give up because they were not presenting it correctly. What great secret am I divulging if I say they are hitting plastic worms????
so what I am saying is that reports can have a certain amount of useful information and then the rest should be up to the fisherman himself, because searching and sifting through water SHOULD be the most fun in bass fishing!
if you do not enjoy searching for fish, then you are in the wrong sport, because unlike even baseball players that fail 70 percent of the time at the plate and are treated like Gods, we might cast 1000 times in a single day to catch a dozen fish and walk away thinking it was tremendous if we get a little size thrown in with the twelve!!
my point is that the searching and figuring out on the water is really the fun, with the occasional pick ups and hooksets being merely the icing on the cake.....
and if a tournament guy is only obscessed with the 5 fish he MUST put in the livewell no matter what, then he too is missing out on the joys of fishing, although many many a tourney guys is not that way, just go back and re-read Nicky' post to see what I mean.
I was on Maho last year in a very tough period in the fall with Nicky and we wrestled with 30 MPH winds to catch a handful of measly undersized smallies and yet we had a great time together and never got pissed in any way.
"the play is the thing" to quote the bard.....
I cannot emphasize this clearly enough, so I will capitalize it and enlarge it again for all to see:
I AM NOT ASKING EVERYONE TO GIVE AWAY THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!
just in the spirit of giving , tell a reasonable amount of info based upon your discretion, and in some cases, if you please, give a lot of information.
I will do that, but again, I am not competing against anyone, yet, I fully understand how that has to change your perspective when you are.
another issue that was brought up was the "pro-staff" thing....personally, I agree it is silly, and in my opinion, misleading: because we have a lot of newbies on this board all the time, and they are very trusting and will base their early spending habits on what they see here....to suggest that an everyday guy like my buddies Woody, or Nicky or one of the many others is a professional is misleading in my judgement.....I have no firm stance on this issue and just leave it up to discussion.
but on the issue of posting information tell me honestly, have I made my point clear?
thanks all......
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by Scully on 06-08-2004 02:42 PM:
yes dear.....
John
Thank you...yes you have.
Scul
Posted by Rich K on 06-08-2004 03:25 PM:
Yes you have
Rather a facinating exchange of ideas, actually.
Rich
Sue's Pro Staff (better believe that's true)
__________________
"Sometimes you find bass. Always, you find yourself."
Posted by patx on 06-08-2004 03:45 PM:
Mike D/All,
Thank you so much for your support in terms of writing what we spoke about - there is just so many hours in the day that I can afford to write down all of my emotions as it relates to an issue that does hit home with me.
One of my best friends in the world IS a true professional bass fisherman. I have seen Mike struggle over the years financially (not an indication of the mans ability - just an economic reality as it relates to the profession he chose) to the point that these guys now have to go outside of the fishing industry to simply maintain a lifestyle. That is sad, and it is the "Patchboys" (Raymond - I love that term!) that did this. Every "Joe" who won a local club event now feels that they are entitled to a sponsorship and I find that pure crap.
Those of you who know me, know that I have "paid my dues" in a big way to this sport, and to hear about someone whos ego is larger that their fishing experience IS offensive. But, this is America I suppose, and you can do what you want - I just think that it is irresponsible only because it effects people that I know and love. These are the guys that are ruining the "business" behind the game. In a game that does not need certification to become a professional, the sad truth is that it only takes $100.00 to get that title (register with the affiliation of BASS professionals.)
What if we were able to "buy" a title in medicine - say a doctor? Do you want to be treated by a professional who bought their title instead of someone who earned it? I dont. Perhaps that is the broken piece - maybe not - perhaps people should learn to look within instead. Unfortunately, I know this will not be the case, and the patches, stickers and embroidery will continue.........
The market has been flooded by people that simply feel that they deserve the "PRIVILEDGE" to call themselves pro or prostaff, not realizing that it does in fact diminish the values of those who honestly deserve that title. Its a simple fact of supply and demand - some of you guys are business people - you understand this. If the market is flooded with alleged "PROS", why search for the best in the industry and have to pay to have these people on board? Do you get it now?
Back to my original statement- Mike D, thanks for voicing what we spoke about earlier, it means a lot to me that you were there for me when I couldnt be.
John G - You know that at the end of the day, I would do anything for you and/or NY BASS because I have never seen anyone step up to the plate in such a thankless job - the moderator. Without you - the board dies - its that simple. Let's face it - in a group of Alpha males like we have in this sport, we need a voice of reason - you are that glue that hold us all together my friend. You let me know when and where you need me and consider it done.
Gary - just for your information, and in my opinion as well as others that have voiced theirs here, I ASPIRE to be a #5 - you may not see it, and thats fine, but I am certainly not going to give to those who do not share my sense of humility as it relates to any accomplishments that I have - regardless of how smallthey are. If someone asks me for something, they got it, but I do not work well with egos (not a shot at you - a statement of my persona and perhaps the root cause of this whole thread).
For the rest of you (Tony my bro), thanks for your understanding and support - you have been around me for years and will probably be around for many more. You guys do know
For the rest - see you on the water!
Pat X
Posted by Cast-a-way on 06-08-2004 04:18 PM:
I think...
what's happening here is some "growing pains". The board has changed over the years...some for better some for worse, mostly for the better.
More tournment anglers have become regulars here over the years. Making a "Tournment Forum" was the right thing to do....I agree with the "if you don't want to read a post/forum skip-it". Yes, some tourny guys (me included) are reluctant to give too much specific info. on a lake/pattern PRIOR to a tourny BUT the info. given on most tourny "results" posts is very informative and specific.
There are ALOT of good fisherman on this board....that's a fact. Some guys might take issue with "pro" staff stuff. I see both sides but either way it shouldn't ruffle anyone's feathers that much to make it an issue. Could John G. be called a "pro" staff....YES. Is he called a "pro" no...did he catch the biggest fish I've seen caught in the tri-state area...YES...it's all relative.
I fished in a jon boat club (still do) for the past 10 years and started fishing in a "real" club as a nonboater last year. I can tell you this just because some guy fishes in club "X" for "X" number of years doesn't make them a better fisherman than the next guy....no need for non-tourny guys to feel intimidated/less knowledgable than "tourny" guys.
Pat and Skeet, you two are some of the best fisherman this board has to offer. Had the pleasure of fishing twice with Pat....he took me to school, literally. Skeet, I heard from Steven what a good mentor you've been to him when he fished with you....You guys are both excellent examples of guys willing to take the time teach others. Can't have enough "quality" fisherman like you two...
Nick...I hear you and will get back to posting more. Your right. I been spending to much time on the "Off-Topic" forum fighting with Paladin...LOL..Just kidding my friend!
__________________
Question all as to their ways and learn the secrets that they hold............Ian Anderson
Posted by Gregg on 06-08-2004 04:24 PM:
For anyone interested clicking on the mini Classic Threads banner under my name in my signature will bring you to the archives, where you will find plenty of old threads with post from everybody including Pat.
Besides being a good fisherman and what you might learn from him, Pat can actually be FUN to fish with....go
figure!
__________________
Gregg
Posted by patx on 06-08-2004 04:37 PM:
ugh - thanks....I think.....?
- when are we fishing Greg?
Pat X
Posted by AKO32 on 06-08-2004 05:33 PM:
What a GREAT thread! I can't believe I missed it until now. I printed out the thread @ 3:30pm when I left the office and now that I am leaving to take the wife for a long over due dinner.....I will be back later... I have so much to say. Again, great thread and Patx, Scully, Nicky, and Tony, you are true gentleman in my book. Thank you....you just don't find that everyday!
__________________
PASSIONATE...nah.. EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE!
Posted by Skeet on 06-08-2004 05:49 PM:
quote:
The market has been flooded by people that simply feel that they deserve the "PRIVILEDGE" to call themselves pro or prostaff, not realizing that it does in fact diminish the values of those who honestly deserve that title. Its a simple fact of supply and demand - some of you guys are business people - you understand this. If the market is flooded with alleged "PROS", why search for the best in the industry and have to pay to have these people on board? Do you get it now?
I am not sure you get it....
I am sponsored by Skeeter. They give me shirts to wear at tournaments. By contract, I have to wear the shirt. My job for Skeeter is simple... to sell boats. If I happen to have success at some tournaments that is a bonus but my job is to sell boats. The "pros" have a different set up with Skeeter and are not under an obligation to sell boats. Their job is to do well in tournaments and generate interest in the Skeeter name. It is my job to take that generated interest in a Skeeter and expand it to a purchase. I do this by explaining the boat for bow to stern and possibly a demo ride. These are things that the "pro's" don't have time for. You can not expect J. Yelas to drive a few hours to give a prospective buyer a demo ride. He is not going to spend hours on a phone or at a dealership to explain the advantages of owning a Skeeter. The pros don't have time to sell boats. Their time is required on the water. My job requirements are the opposite. I sell boats first and then fish if I have time.
By my sales and the 100's of other Team Skeeter Members sales, Skeeter is able to put more "pros" on their payroll and give them better deals.
I have had the pleasure of meeting many of the Skeeter Pros and most have started in the same position as I am in. Not once has a Pro shown any type of disrespect toward me or anyone else I know as you were hinting.
In fact, I am not sure how you could even make the statements you did in the thread above and feel good about being sponsored by Team Yamamoto? How are you excluded from us "patchboys"?
__________________
Gary K.
Micro Munch Tackle Pro Staff
Posted by earthworm77 on 06-08-2004 06:06 PM:
OK, I'm in!
RE:Bragging
The bragging posts that I've seen up on the board always seems to rub someone wrong...."I haven't done that so it can't be done", "you are a liar", that kind of thing. I personally have not posted any information about what my parters and I have done, outside of tournament results in a long while, the exception being the trip I took just after major surgery last year, I was just happy to get out on the water despite steel rods in my hand, give me a pass on that or go screw! I do appreciate a post of a truly big fish though. I'm certainly not trying to impress anyone as I don't care who agrees or disagrees with my views.
I and a few others had a problem with a post last year about an anglers season broken down in terms of total fish caught, while entertaining, I fish with a few guys whose numbers of both fish caught and big fish caught are just superior to the point that it is embarrassing and they don't dare peep about it. Do you know why???? Because this is the kind of conversation that ensues. It just invites guys to try to one up each other. Or tell another guy they are full of shit. Who cares what everyone thinks, no need to let the cat out of the bag or attract attention.
I've taken heat writing about certain topics from guys who don't understand my points. I write about my experiences and those include my style, my baits and my lakes. Some people can't get past that. It isn't being a braggart, it is writing about what you know. If anyone wants me to stop writing and being informative, I challenge you to let me know and I will stop. I realize this is not about me, I'm just using myself as an example so as not to offend. People seem a little touchy.
RE: TX's
Some guys go to great lengths to find and culture productive areas and certainly don't want those areas being trampled on by a party boat full of guys who lurk on this board to find out such info. Nothing wrong with that and a big reason why I no longer post any such material or write articles about specific bodies of water or show my photos on this forum. I've been guilty of it in the past. (Joe P take notice, no photos cause I don't want to know what I'm doing or where, besides, this is the age of video.)
At the same time, posting a photo for the mere reason of letting everyone know how great you are is kind of selfish and blocking out the foreground/background essentially verifies that your purpose for doing this is such. Now, if you are going to be worried that guys will find your spots that you have to go to lengths to block out shoreline or landmarks, you are an idiot for posting the photo in the first place. I'm not singling anyone out and I also didn't think that Huge's photo was a blatant attempt to do that, unless I missed something, or it was already deleted without me seeing it, in that case Huge, your an id....just kidding!
There is nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments. I have limited tournament experience. I am proud of my accomplishments and there is no reason not to be. But I do realize these are dinky little rinky dink events and on the grand scale of things mean nothing. But so are all of them, no matter how big. Win a Classic, win a million and I'll be impressed, until that happens, we are all likely on the same level. Most guys get caught up in fishing for 100.00 like its really a lot more, why? I do not think there is anything wrong with TX fishing.
Is Mike Iaconelli a better guy that AKO? He won a Classic but we can all agree he is a douche or at least acted like one. AKO may be mentally on the edge but he certainly is a class guy. Is Iaconelli a better guy? My vote is with the mentally unstable guy. Who cares.
I respect Mike Del V a ton. He is what I would say an honest guy and a good guy. I don't get caught up in the fishing groupie mentality that some guys do about pro's. He is just a regular guy. These are just guys who make a living doing something we likely would want to....until it was time to produce. I respect that. We all should but.......
Re: Pro Staff
If this offends and it is ridiculous that guys are annoyed at the term, I invite you to come up with another. I do not talk about my sponsorships on this forum, yet I do have several. You'll see me wearing my colors at NY Bass University and likely not be reminded about it again until next year. These companies hold me in high enough regard to trust me to project them in a positive image, a professional image, why does being a professional angler matter? They list me as part of their Pro Staff. I do not aspire to be a professional angler and I'm not knocking anyone who does but what should the correct term be? Should we call it a field staff or not so professional staff? I'm curious, If this offends and I mean, really offends, ask yourself why you take the time to even care, it is kind of dumb. Should a guy give up the perks of getting whatever a sponsor is offered..."no I'm sorry man, can't do it, I'm not a Pro. No I won't take your free or discounted baits, get away from me man, you are sick!"
C'mon here!
Call me a patch boy and we will fight, I earned everyone of them!
IMHO-Huge put up a photo, of one of his smaller fish
and really wasn't trying to incite this discussion.
Until further notice:
Nicky Bass Rat Russo
Tom Kail
Gary Menchen
Myself
Todd Spencer
Rob Fisher
Dave Shindler
Charlie Clifford
Noel Good
Gary Relief Pitcher K.....will all be a part of my "not so professional staff"...Hope this satisfies everyone!
Let me tell you something about these guys, each one has opitimized what I wanted in a "Pro Staffer" Excellent moral fiber and character, add to that they are top notch anglers, I have no problem considering them "Pro's" for the way they copnduct themselves. They have not come on this or any other site to badmouth competitive sponsors. They don't constanly remind everyone about what they are fishing to the point that it sickens you. They are credible and that is what I look for!
Proud of you guys for being on the team, Thank You!!!-Craig
__________________
Micro Munch Tackle
If you need it, I will build it and they will come.
Posted by JOHN G on 06-08-2004 06:07 PM:
Gary: I will try to explain a bit in case Pat doesn't see this right away:
when he says "patchboys", he is actually referring to people who wear the shirts and the patches but are not actually offical sponsors, I believe......
Pat has spoken publically where he has been obligated to wear the yammato patch or signature or whatever on his shirt or clothing in some way or designation, I'm sure he understands that.
Gary, this level of sponsorship that you have with Skeeter is very interesting! I wasn't fully aware of these different stages of representation and how they pan out. Now this is something that I would have remained ignorant about had not this discussion ensued.....
a reminder to keep it very civil as this thread is really hashing around a lot of bottled up feelings and I want to keep it going and the dialogue open but please, a reminder to keep it constructive and civil....
__________________
JOHN G Forum Administrator
Posted by earthworm77 on 06-08-2004 06:16 PM:
So someone that wears a Rapala hat is a patch boy? John, you may have missed my long post right under Gary's.
__________________
Micro Munch Tackle
If you need it, I will build it and they will come.
Posted by fishinut on 06-08-2004 06:16 PM:
This is an interesting thread....
Regarding pro staffs, I once talked to a member of the Lucky Craft "pro staff" and he told me pro staff meant nothing more than PROMOTIONAL STAFF!
__________________
Fishinut
"The next best thing to fishing is talking about fishing" - Mike Iaconelli
Posted by Skeet on 06-08-2004 06:42 PM:
quote:
when he says "patchboys", he is actually referring to people who wear the shirts and the patches but are not actually offical sponsors, I believe......
John,
I think you should read the part I quoted again. He is referring to Pro Staffer or whatever you want to call us.
My question is how is what he does with GYB any different from what I do for Skeeter or MMB. (sorry Craig, I was trying to keep you out of this)
How is he upset with the people who wear the shirts and patches and not sponsored?? Do you think DEI (Dale Earnhardt Inc) is upset with all the people wearing Dale Earnhardt jackets, shirts, etc??
Some boat companies give jackets, shirts, and PFD's to anyone who purchases a boat. The company is not doing it to upset the Pro's. They are doing it for added publicity.
So we should be upset with all the anglers who wear R@#ger Jackets??
Please.......
__________________
Gary K.
Micro Munch Tackle Pro Staff
Posted by Scully on 06-08-2004 07:02 PM:
i dont have a problem....
Gentleman
I dont have a problem with guys that have boat deals. I do however have a problem with people who "believe" themselves to be professionals simply by being a part of a manufactures "PROMOTIONAL STAFF"....Big Difference".
Whether you wish to believe it or not, as Pat and I have mentioned previously...the real professionals that do this for a living have a REAL problem with this. To them it is offensive. The termonology should to be changed.
However, from a manufactures point of view, I do understand it. At one time, my company, Viper Spinnerbaits sponsored, LeRoy Bailey, Ted Soley, Dave Portella and for a brief time Mike Iaconeli. I provided them with product, but never once asked them to put my logo on their shirts. A simple word of mouth was all that I required.
Mike Iaconeli actually won a Top 150 event on Lake Champlain using a Viper Spinnerbait, but that is another story for another time.
If you ask a B.A.S.S. pro to define what a professional is they will tell you SOMEONE who gets paid to fish for a living. I can assure you, every sponsor on LeRoy Baileys Shirt, Boat and Vehicle....pays $$$$$ to be on them. Does he get free product? Yes, but your name wont go on his shirt unless you pay him for it.
.