Posted by AKO32 on 05-02-2003 11:05 AM:

Always In Season

Not being able to login for several weeks, I have some new things to share! At the urging of Travis, I decided to start targeting some other species of fish. Besides targeting fish that are in season, you really can learn much from other species and that in turn WILL make you a more complete angler! For years, I have only targeted LM bass. I wouldn’t have considered fishing for any other! I live for the green variety! No… let me re-phrase that, I… EAT, SLEEP, BREATH, LIVE, LOVE, the Bucketmouth! When I am not “in class”, fishing for greenies, I am reading and learning my quarry. Can’t ever learn enough. The more I learn, the more I know how much I don’t know!

Last fall, I had my first experience with a Bronzeback! I won’t recount my experience but, I will say that Lake Ronkonkoma is NOT THE DEAD SEA! Put your running shoes on and go get em! Robbie, I can now understand why you love that place! Let’s hope that our project will help the LM fishing! From the looks of things, it should be like Soriano, HOMERUN, AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN. We will be planting some willow trees soon! I will keep all interested parties updated.

Back to my original thought, this past weekend, I opened up a new can of worms! I started fishing for CARP! That’s right, C-A-R-P! Never thought I would say that. A little background on this. For some time I have never seen the merit in backreeling and to be quite honest, I just couldn’t get the hang of it. I have landed a few nice fish w/o backreeling and I use only the best equipment. I didn’t see the need to backreel when I have reels with good drags. Well… that might still be true but, when you have on the hog of your life, you do not want any failure! Let it be I, not my tackle! I knew that it was something that I must master. I was told that one of the best ways to learn how to back reel was, to get giant fish on your line and crank down the drag ALL THE WAY… YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE… BACKREEL OR LOSE THE FISH!

I went to a local pond in East Hampton and I went out to target some freshwater bonefish! For those who do not know, these fish are VERY spooky. You must sneak up on them or forget about it. I fish of a kayak so that isn’t a problem. I went into a little cove and got my gear ready. I was using a 7ft Ray Scott rod rated for 2-6lb test! I have that rod mated with a Zebco Cardinal 3 and 6.8 mono.. Imagine that, 6.8 test for fish that weigh. 15-40lbs I wouldn’t have believed it myself except that I did it this Sunday and landed a carp that was 15-20 lbs. I hooked into 3 fish but only landed 1. Not too good except that I did learn to back reel! Like he said, NO OTHER CHOICE! I fought this fish for a solid 10 minutes. I was dragged all over that lake by this behemoth. Thank god someone was with me to help me land this monster! Numerous runs, many dives and at the end of it all when it was picture time he got me soaked by all the thrashing around! PURE ADDRENILAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a rush!

A few very important lessons were learned,
A- You can land big fish on light tackle, VERY BIG- VERY LIGHT TACKLE
B- Back reeling does work! Very well!
C- Carp are a shit load of fun!
D- I can land any size LM on my tackle of choice!
E- You do not need a broomstick to land big fish!
Fellas, Don’t knock it until you try it! I have since landed 4 carp this week all over 15 lbs on 6.8 lb test!! Please try it, you will love it! And they are in season!!!!!!!!

A few weeks back someone was warning of the DEC being out in full force, BE CAREFUL they are! I have seen them 3 times this WEEK alone, on the Peconic! I was speaking to Lt. Huss and he says they are very serious about this closed season for bass!!

Good luck to all and have a great season! I am looking to get over 200 days on the water this season so I hope to see many of you on the water!

Posted by HugeFish4 on 05-02-2003 11:13 AM:

AKO, I am a big fan of back reeling, and I have been doing it ever since I was very young. I think I originally got the idea from the old Fishin' Hole shows. I also know the thrill of reeling in monster carp. I remember in my college day, my buddy would have big summer parties at his parent's house on Oneida. Besides the awesome bass fishery this place is, one could see huge carp patrolling the shallows. While we played volleyball, I would chum the water with some corn and put a couple of poles out with the drag set very lightly. Inevitably, in the middle of drinking and playing volleyball, one of the poles would buckle over and the fight with the "Lake Bison" would begin. Nothing like battling the bull runs of a 15lb carp on 8lb test from shore. Certainly was a thrill!

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Posted by Mark G on 05-02-2003 11:25 AM:

I'm still a bit dubious on backreeling, but your story has some excellent points. Sometimes you have to force yourself to learn these things. It's like leaving all your baits home except the one you want to learn. You have no choice but to learn it. Sounds like you took a similar strategy with the carp.

My problem with carp has always been that they don't seem to eat. It makes it hard to catch them .

But seriously, I have never been able to get a carp to hit anything. I know they'll hit tubes, but what else, besides doughballs and the like. What were you using when you hooked up with those fish?

Mark

Posted by AKO32 on 05-02-2003 12:38 PM:

Mark, I chummed the area first with a couple of handfuls of corn( low sodium of course ) then I put one kernal on a split shot hook with a split shot 24 inches up the line. Cast out and hold on!

Posted by fishEguy on 05-02-2003 03:58 PM:

AKO

I have to agree with you on two things:

First off, largemouth RULE!....and number two, largemouth rule!.....

Ok, seriously, you have touched on another point I have commented on in many posts, carp fishing. I fish for carp using an ultra light ultralite....
I'm talking a 5 foot, 1.5oz rod and 2-4lb test. I have landed up to 20lb carp on this setup, once to the absolute amazement of my buddy in the back of the boat. It was at Otsego Lake and I initially thought I had hooked a big Laker. Fight took about 20 minutes. Obviously this was in open water, but nonetheless, it will put all your angling skills and tackle to the test.

Backreeling does indeed work very well once you get the feel for how and when to utilize it. I liken it to disengaging the spool on a baitcaster instead of relying on the drag. Something I rarely have to do with bass, but do use fairly often with bigger toothy critters, carp, salmon, etc. But with the newer and better drags and lines these
days, I use backreeling less and less, but once again, it is effective.

MARK

There are quite a few ways to catch carp. Corn being one of the most popular as mentioned (I gotta try the low sodium thing..), as well as dough balls, crawlers, minnows, and the absolute best bait......shhhhhhhh a small live crawdad.....yes Leigh, even the "blue ones"......
But as far as artificials, one of the most effective is a small Mister Twister type curly
tail grub, around 1 1/2 inches. Fishing is usually done by sight. Once you locate a fish, then lead it a few feet with the bait and retrieve it right in front of his face and let it slowly fall......same thing as flyfishing (which is my favorite to catch em'!) and truly makes them the "freshwater bonefish".
Bigger is NOT better even for the giants when it comes to carp. A 30lber will suck down a little grub in a second. These fish are very weary and skittish, smaller and subtle presentations are choice. In fact, I caught the one at Otsego accidentally on a small curly tail grub many years ago while fishing for smallies, and have used them
ever since.........

HUGE
Oneida is "lake Bison" heaven........

I would like to have added more to this post but time does not allow, many a season opens TOMORROW!!!......... and I have to go in the garage and stare at my boat........

Michael

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Posted by JOHN G on 05-02-2003 05:39 PM:

Nice thread , and good to see you back on the board Andy! saying 6.8, is tantamount to saying Tectan, which is tantamount to saying Travis and Mr Jig! LOL....

however, do not let your experiences with those carp fool you:

carp are NOT gamefish....they have a straight agead bullish kind of resolve, they will not do the aero spins of smallies for instance.....if you think you cannot break a line with a 4 pound or larger smallie doing one of his moon spins, even with Back reeling, you are mistaken! they can generate an enormous amount of momentum that even with back reeling you may not be able to react to in time....however, I agree totally with your method of learning it, and I hope you continue to go on here this season, and let us know your progress with it as the water warms, and lake conditions change!!!

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Posted by jpsurf on 05-02-2003 08:57 PM:

Take that Yak in the salt

CARP,blaaaaah Try taking your yak in some skinny water & fish for some stripes,You thought you got dragged around by a carp. You really better hold on.

Great story,Ako.I still think you should try the salt,you'll never go back,well on an occasion maybe.

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Posted by Meg on 05-02-2003 10:07 PM:

I used to think people who actually fished for carp (not like those of us who say we're looking for carp while fishing a 1 oz spinnerbait early season!) were crazy, until one day about a year ago. A friend said he had caught some carp the previous day, and wanted to go again. I thought he had lost it, but I have to say, we went, and it was a BLAST! They might not be a game fish, but just getting bit after a very long and cold winter was great, not to mention the 5-10 minute arm aching reeling...

After hearing so much about Tectan from Dick and others, I bought some last month, and am really psyched to give it a try. I am hoping to hook up with Craig from Ga next week, so maybe I'll learn something about back reeling. He cuts off the bail on his reels. Frankly, at this point, I'd be happy to try just about anything!

Posted by AKO32 on 05-02-2003 10:19 PM:

JP,

quote:

CARP,blaaaaah Try taking your yak in some skinny water & fish for some stripes,You thought you got dragged around by a carp. You really better hold on.

Answer me this, Have you ever caught a Carp on 6 lb test? I would venture to guess, NO. Really, don't knock it if you haven't tried it. I do agree with you on the brine though! I haven't persued the salt yet but, will be in many of the back bays this year persuing the Stripers. I do fish from the surf and really have a blast! I frequent Hortons Point and I venture out to the Gut at least 5 times a year. Towards the end of last season, a buddy of mine brought me out to a few creeks on the south shore of the north fork and we live lined shad and the stripes would chase them up on the beach. Cool shit! I tell ya, nice to see your entusiasm for the brine! Would love to hit some of the beaches with you this season! Will be in touch! As long as I am fishing, I am balanced and just plain ol' right!

Posted by bass 64 on 05-02-2003 10:31 PM:

Andy, sounds fun. I see that you haven't been online in a few weeks. Did you get my e-mail that I sent you about a week ago? If so take your time replying I am sure you are overwhelmed if you haven't been on in a few weeks. If you don't get it let me know and I will email you again or you can email me. - Joe A.

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Posted by AKO32 on 05-02-2003 10:36 PM:

John,

quote:

carp are NOT gamefish....they have a straight agead bullish kind of resolve, they will not do the aero spins of smallies for instance.....if you think you cannot break a line with a 4 pound or larger smallie doing one of his moon spins, even with Back reeling, you are mistaken! they can generate an enormous amount of momentum that even with back reeling you may not be able to react to in time....

I realize that carp are not gamefish. But I will say this, they are much gamier than a 12" bass! I have not caught enough of them yet to know if they will be somewhat acrobatic. I believe they won't butm they will out fight most 5lb bass. No comparison in brute strength! I have caught a few big bass in my young career and only one bass that I caught had the resolve of these carp and that ended after a five solid minute struggle. He had a few very strong runs but, he did tire after the battle and these carp just don't quit! Each species has its moments and to think that I have experienced sm bass enough to know all there intricacies is an understatement! I only tangled with an absolute slob on Ronkonkoma. I will keep all updated on the progress this season. I just find it hard to believe that a bass will break 6 lb test, IF PLAYED PROPERLY will break a line when a 20lb carp couldn't touch the tackle! Like I said, I have a lot to learn and I will learn all these lessons ON THE WATER!

-AKO

Posted by bigredfishing on 05-02-2003 11:35 PM:

If someone was really interested in an interesting kind of fishing, try fly-fishing for carp. I just wade out onto some shallow weedy flats, or use your boat.

then you fish for them, just as you would bonefish.

note;
you need to use rusty colored flies
also, the big ones are super line shy, and super spooky.

if the presentation isnt perfect the fish will spook.
i prefer 7x tippit (1-3lb test)

is usually do this once or twice a year, not more, because it is just soo difficult most of the time.

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Posted by jpsurf on 05-03-2003 01:43 AM:

Carp fishing

I tried it a few times actually,not my cup "O"tea.If they would hit plugs,(not flies)then maybe it would be fun,I'm sure you could catch em on plugs(small).I fished for em the same way you did.Corn,doughballs & bread.We caught plenty of fish,just not my style of fishing.Lower lake in yaphank has some LARGE Carp.If you were interested.
I'm cureous::This tectan line your talking about,is it IGFA approved???I"ve been fishing Suffix,12lb. It has the abbrasion resistance of 25lb,or more.It can say 6lb,but actually might not be.

Did you say"Hortons Point"AHHHHHH,now were talkin. Try Mulfords,Pettys bite. The north fork is gonna start pickin up in another 3 weeks.Get ready,I'll be out there on a daily basis,look me up.
As long as your haveing a good time,thats all that matters.Enjoy.

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Posted by JPBass on 05-03-2003 06:18 AM:

Re: Carp fishing

quote:

Originally posted by jpsurf

I'm cureous::This tectan line your talking about,is it IGFA approved???I"ve been fishing Suffix,12lb. It has the abbrasion resistance of 25lb,or more.It can say 6lb,but actually might not be.

.

Jim, Tectan is one of the very few lines in which the manufacturer actually gives you an accurate description of the breaking strength at the knot.

It's 6.8 diameter compares with most others 4 lb. test.

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Posted by JOHN G on 05-03-2003 06:51 AM:

Andy, don't get me wrong: I wasn't trying to knock Carp fishing in any way...just pointing out the difference in the stress put on the line....

I caught a 10 pound Carp once on 4 pound test!! Now, it was a four and a half foot rod! YES!!! was doing some ultralight fishing for smallies, with a little one sixteenth head and a sassy shad.....for some reason, that brute sucked it up off the bottom....it took me a half an hour to get him in the boat, but never once was I worried about the line breaking because of the way he was swimming....I was using the drag, and had it set a little light.....he sure took drag alright and also towed the rowboat around, as this was on Cross River Reservoir.....

no question, they will teach you a lot because of their bulk and size....

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Posted by AKO32 on 05-03-2003 09:59 AM:

Lower lake in yaphank has some LARGE Carp

Thanks for the heads up! I will take you up on the Hortons Point run! I love everything about that place. I own some land in Baiting Hollow and I also fish my beach down there as well! If you are ever interested give me a shout. I just hate the surf rods and all the salt that gaks up all your shit! The rewards are better than bitching about the salt though!

Posted by AKO32 on 05-03-2003 10:06 AM:

quote:

just pointing out the difference in the stress put on the line....

That is why you can get away with such light line, using a 7ft rod, most of the pressure is on using the properties of the rods action! I used to use exclusively 5-6 ft rods. I have heard some speak of the size of their fishing rod being related to their height. I felt the same way, before I fished with a 7ft rod and realized the reason behind the length. Really has nothing to do with someones height! Like JP said,

quote:

As long as your haveing a good time,thats all that matters

I tried to fish with my 6ft compre the other day, HATED it! It felt like a broom stick. If anyone is interested in an arsenal of Shimano Compre's please email me @, aohlbaum@aol.com

Posted by Bassin Dude on 05-03-2003 10:20 AM:

AKO, sometimes for me things go full circle...

I started fishing when I was about 8 years old. From 8 to about 25 or so I fished for anything and everything.

From 25 to about 40 I took up bass fishing quite seriously and really enjoyed (and still do) fooling the green and especially the brown variety.

The past three years though, I've renewed my love of multi-species angling. Mainly this is because of the time I spend fishing with my three boys. It is much better to be with a child and see him or her catch 30 assorted panfish then labor for hours for two bass.

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Posted by Woody on 05-03-2003 05:29 PM:

You were taught extremely well....

From one who knows .
Tight Lines,
Woody