Posted by maximus10k on 04-22-2003 10:01 PM:

Heads up to the Long Island guys

I know there's a few guys out there "CRAPPIE" fishing. The DEC was down at Twin Lakes today checking for fishing licenses. Which I think is great to see, but don't get caught with a 3/8 spinnerbait or 7" powerworm and try to explain your targeting panfish. Remember "PICKEREL" season isn't till the first saturday in May.

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Posted by JOHN G on 04-22-2003 10:40 PM:

In some cases in the state, that could indeed be a problem MAX, but I have been stopped by DEC officers around the reservoirs and they never commented on any lure I was throwing....just a check of licencse or whatever.

JOHN G

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-22-2003 10:59 PM:

Long Island Heads Up

A few years ago at TWIN LAKES I stopped to talk to Charlie Guthrie, when I saw he was there. It is entirely up to the DEC officers discretion as to whether you get a ticket for targeting bass. Charlie DOES NOT PLAY GAMES. On this particular day he did WRITE these guys as they were throwing BASS baits pre-season. Long Island is VERY STRICT about its seasonal laws. All of you East enders and guys who go out to FORGE, (TUBEKING) beware of this.

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Posted by Chance on 04-23-2003 10:40 AM:

True True True.....

I've been harassed er um I mean questioned twice so far this year once after work in a shirt and tie. Both on the peconic, I was fishing small crappie jigs and spinners both times but was immediately asked what I was fishing for. The first time was two days after Pickeral season (3/19). I had a second rod with a hula grub on it the other day that got the ire of the DEC guy up. What are you doing with that rod he asked. Er um er nothing that bait must've been tied on from last year ... you can check it it is dry

Just doin there job of course! You'd think they'd rather target the foriegners who actualy poach for dinner on the peconic regularly,,, but whatever.....

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Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-23-2003 10:48 AM:

Interesting. I have fished in Rockland County my entire life and have never been asked if I was targetting bass. In fact, I can hardly remember getting approached. Anyone that asks me what I am fishing for gets my standard answer. "I am fishing for whatever bites". I have been asked to open my cooler before. Fortunately, that is for food!!! LOL! But you guys are scaring me!!

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 10:57 AM:

Chris,
You raise a very good point which has been a sore spot with me for years. The DEC does do a very good job of patrolling the lakes in this region. It does however seem that they are always around and harrassXXXX er I mean checking on those of us who practice catch and release while the guys who are blatantly out there poaching get away with it constantly. I have seen it all too often. I personally dont think there should be a closed season in NY at all and that Catch and Release ONLY should be instituted prior to the June opening. This practice has not adversely affected the fisheries in CT or NJ and would allow us die hards to enjoy our sport a little earlier.
just my 2 cents

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 11:44 AM:

All true Nick, but who wants to go through the hassle of having to fight it before a judge. My point is simple...whether you can beat it or not, the DEC can & will write you up if you have a bass lure tied on.

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Posted by TVal on 04-23-2003 12:12 PM:

Come on down

Now after all this, $40 bucks to fish CT. doesn't seem so bad after all, does it.
Tim

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Posted by earthworm77 on 04-23-2003 12:23 PM:

I agree with Nick.

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Posted by Barry on 04-23-2003 12:36 PM:

I never new that there is a "Bass Only Lure", any lure can catch any species at any given time. I have caught a Golden Shiner on a Rattlin Chug Bug at our family outing last year at Ronkonkoma with Frank J. on the boat. I certainly was not targeting Golden Shiners. I agree with Nick if you have the fish in your possession THEN you are in violation. Even if you have it on the line when you are stopped if you do a "in water release" (do not put the fish in the boat) you should not be cited. Just my opinion.

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Posted by Chance on 04-23-2003 12:41 PM:

I agree its tough to make it stick in "court" but who need the hassle.

A conservation minded angler should be able to practice catch and release assuming he/she is not targeting bedding bass. The current slant is no doubt geared in some way to revenue generation by the state.

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Posted by jpsurf on 04-23-2003 12:57 PM:

Since the second trout stocking,the DEC has been out in force.Thats there job.
Good to see em out.

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 01:01 PM:

BASS only LURES

OK
On the day I was refering to that I met up with Charlie Guthrie at Twin Lakes he explained this to me. There ARE certain lures such as plastic worms or a jig & pig that are DESIGNED to specifically target and catch bass. He further explained that while a spinnerbait is PRIMARILY a BASS lure, because it has FLASH, it is effective on pickeral as well. It is UP TO THE DISCRETION OF THE DEC OFFICER to determine what species you are targeting by the use of the bait(s) you have tied on. LIKE IT OR NOT, depending on what you have tied on will determine what you are fishing for, and the DEC has the RIGHT to make that determination. Sure, you can probably beat it in court--maybe! Remember that these cases are usually tried before SPECIFIC judges who are familiar with DEC laws and have heard every lame excuse under the sun.
!!! You do not have to be "in posession" of bass to be written up. Prior to the 3rd Saturday in June it is ILLEGAL to FISH for them READ YOUR RULES & REGS

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Posted by Barry on 04-23-2003 01:09 PM:

How about if you were fishing with night crawlers? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. But where do you draw the line?

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Posted by Chance on 04-23-2003 01:29 PM:

In the sand of course!!!

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 01:35 PM:

Nightcrawlers

Nightcrawlers are ok because there are a multitude of fish that will hit on them. While they might be a favorite food for bass, carp, crappie, sunfish, perch and catfish will all hit them just as readily. Use all the nightcrawlers you want.

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Posted by Theole34 on 04-23-2003 02:42 PM:

the answer to "what are you trying to catch?" should be... "fish."

seriously, it's not that difficult to scale down and go panfishing for a while. we will all be on bass waters in ct in a month.

robbie

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Posted by maximus10k on 04-23-2003 02:45 PM:

My point was when I started the thread is just be carefull. When I was out the other day I walked up through the woods on a guy wading in the shallows throwing a spinnerbait. I asked him "any luck" and without much of a backward glance he said "I caught a few, their lying on the beds". The guy didn't know that I wasn't with the DEC, if I was he just would have flat out confessed to me.

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 02:55 PM:

Maximus--my point exactly--just be careful!

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Posted by Broadbill on 04-23-2003 08:46 PM:

Wheither you agree with it or not the fact is that if you are targeting bass you are breaking the law and deserve to be ticketed. You shouldn't try to make excuses or try to get around it.

If you truely consider yourself a sportsman, you shouldn't be fishing for species out of season period.

Theres really no question or dispute here.

On Long Island we have a "new" officer, straight out of the academy. Full of piss & vinegar and carrying a Glock. He will not give you ANY slack.

Many people don't realize that these are real police. They can confiscate your equipment, impound your boat and vehicle, and cuff you and take you in.

Instead of complaining, call the hotline and report the illegal practices you witness. There are only a few officers and they can't be everywhere, they need your support.

Be Proud, Be Licensed, Be Legal.

Broadbill

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-23-2003 11:06 PM:

AMEN Reverand Broadbill!

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Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-23-2003 11:09 PM:

Fishing for bass pre-season is like driving 56 in a 55. Almost everyone does it!!! Not that I would!

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Posted by bassinbilly on 04-23-2003 11:10 PM:

I'm glad I use Live Minnows and sawbellies, I caught just about everything using them

Posted by Charlie on 04-24-2003 08:58 AM:

This type of post comes up each year and the fact is you should not fish with "known bass lures" regardless of the species you are supposedly targeting. Who goes crappie fishing with a 3/4oz spinnerbait, give me a break here! Nobody in their right mind is targeting trout with a jig and pig!

If you chose to "break the law" you should also be ready to face the consiquences!

If for one moment you don't think I would give my right NUT to go fishing locally here on the island now, you don't know me at all, but I have to respect the laws of the state until they get revised, revisited or removed.

The closed season is certainly an issue that will always raise controversy and regardless of your personal beliefs, these fish need a break to breed and settle for the onslaught we as anglers bring them.

Tight Lines!
Charlie

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Posted by Charlie on 04-24-2003 10:31 AM:

Singing:

Bad Nick, Bad Nick whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

Now Nick goes fishing with lures, they are supposed to be for bass,
But when the DEC comes around, he's gonna tell them to kiss his &ss!

Bad Nick, Bad Nick whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

Police man gimme a ticket, the fine is $50 bucks, but Nick tear the ticket up, because he just don't give a damn!!!!!

Bad Nick, Bad Nick whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?

Charlie

Posted by Scott C on 04-24-2003 10:37 AM:

Hey....I was in the Sumps at Ronko the other day throwing a 4 inch Salty Stinker. I was the only one there..... From my position I saw the ranger pass the access road.....and then a minute later come back after he saw my car. I watched as they walked around my parked vehicle checking tags etc. Then they came directly to me on the other side of the pond looking VERY serious. They asked me point blank what I was fishing for and my answer was Crappie. One questioned if they were really in here and I said that is what I heard. Immediately I was asked for my license, which I produced gladly. I was then asked if a few beers that were left behind near a tree were mine (they werent) and I said no. He said "Are you sure ? because I wasnt going to bust your chops or anything" right He then asked me if I wanted them. Which I thought was very strange......of course I said no and again he asked me if I was sure. I was getting a bit mad at this point because it seemed he was trying to trap me ......these guys were doing their best intimidating routine or something.....the entire encounter was very strange.
My point ?
After thinking about this for a while I realized that they were doing what they get paid to do. They didnt know if I was a harvester or if I was some degenerate or even a terrorist poisoning our waters. Any of which we all dont want in our waters.
Make sure you have your licences, and dont do things you really shouldnt...or at least dont get caught because these guys didnt look like they were playing around............as they shouldnt be.

Its all about respect.......respect for the environment and respect for the law.

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-24-2003 10:44 AM:

Hey Scott--Glad to see you on the board. I was asking about you. Are you a daddy yet?
You certainly cant blame the DEC guys for stopping you. I would have pegged you for a terrorist if I didn't know better. Keep us posted on daddyhood!

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Posted by Scott C on 04-24-2003 10:47 AM:

Gee thanks buddy !!!!

I have been swamped lately and my home PC is not cooperating..... all is well though thanks !

Due date is May 13 and I hope for my wife's sake she goes early.....there is just no more room in that body for the 2 of them !

I will keep you posted.............

SC

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-24-2003 10:51 AM:

Scott,
I meant a Bass Terrorist! <]))))))<

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Posted by bassinbilly on 04-24-2003 12:08 PM:

This is from the DEC web site:

TAKING AND POSSESSION OF FISH

A person MAY NOT fish for a species(not even catch and release) during the closed season for that species on a given water.

A person MAY NOT have in possession, or intentionally kill or injure, fish other then the sizes specified and allowed for that species on a given water.

The fish an angler catches and IMMEDIATLY RELEASES UNINJURED
will not be counted as part of the daily limit for that species.

A person may continue to fish for a species while in possession of a daily limit for that species provided all fish of that species subsequently caught are immediatly returned to the water. Special provisions are made for largemouth and smallmouth bass.

A single, uninjured Largemouth or smallmouth bass that an angler is landing, measuring, or in the process of releasing from a recirculating or aerated livewell, is not considered to be part of daily limit.

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-24-2003 12:17 PM:

Thank you for that up date Billy. As stated in a previous post on this thread it IS up to the determination of the DEC officer as to whether you are targeting bass. If you are caught with a 3/4oz spinnerbait or a jig & pig, expect to be ticketed.

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Posted by Chance on 04-24-2003 12:53 PM:

The real jist of this thread is that...

The enforcers on Long Island are much more serious and agressive than other parts of the state/country.

True True True!

>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>

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One fish, Two Fish, Green Fish, Bronze Fish!

Posted by Scott C on 04-24-2003 01:02 PM:

You dirty RAT !!!!

LOL

These guys were lookin for a collar.........

Posted by Lpbassman on 04-24-2003 01:15 PM:

Chris,
In a nut shell yes. Thanks for summing up in 1 sentance what has taken 3 pages to get across.

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Posted by JOHN G on 04-24-2003 04:42 PM:

Guys, In the old board I had a notice up about posts concerning this very same thing that is being argued here.....many might have forgotten that I put a "ban" on discussing NYS bass regulations until after the legal season is open, so lets move on to another topic regarding LI, the point has been made, they are stricter on the Island, be careful, be prudent, etc....

JOHN G

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-24-2003 04:58 PM:

His Evilness has spoken. All heed his warning!!!

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-24-2003 05:06 PM:

John,
You most certainly did and I WILL OBEY

Just trying to warn the LI guys. DONT DO IT!

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Posted by wnybassman on 04-24-2003 05:42 PM:

Broadbill summed up my personal opinion VERY well:

"If you truely consider yourself a sportsman, you shouldn't be fishing for species out of season period. "

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I also agree with Charlie. I to would give my left nut right now to go bassin'. But, I am a sportsman, so I don't.

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Posted by maximus10k on 04-25-2003 01:04 AM:

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Posted by Charlie on 04-25-2003 08:47 AM:

Yes Sir!

Sorry if I got off on a tangent, but you know me!!!!

Tight Lines!
Charlie

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-25-2003 04:43 PM:

quote:

"If you truely consider yourself a sportsman, you shouldn't be fishing for species out of season period. "

Sorry John, but this statement just gets me going. I guess I am a sportsman because I fish for bass in NJ where it is legal all year round, but if someone in Rockland County, NY (which is 5 minutes away) does, he is a poor sportsman. Give me a break!!! That individual may be breakin' the law, but is not a bad sportsman. That may sound crazy to some, but the law in NY is crazier to me.

If it were a National Law, I would agree, however it is just an archaic remnant from the days of meat fishermen.

Again, I apologize John, but with all due respect to those that think that way, I completely disagree.

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Posted by black lake bass on 04-25-2003 05:44 PM:

long island nice i wnat to go !!!!

big al bowmansville ny wny

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Posted by Bass Rat on 04-25-2003 06:55 PM:

Huge

Posted by wnybassman on 04-25-2003 09:23 PM:

"Sportsman" according to Webster:

1. A man who takes part in sports, especially hunting and fishing etc.

2. One who plays fairly (by the rules) and can lose without complaint and win without gloating

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with the current laws. I am just saying we have them. Some play by the rules some do not.

.....and I'm going perch fishing tomorrow!

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-26-2003 06:55 AM:

quote:

One who plays fairly (by the rules) and can lose without complaint and win without gloating

In my mind "by the rules" is probably more centered around competitive events. In NY's cases, the law or the rules are outdated. Again, I still don't understand how someone fishing for bass in NJ or Conn in April is a "Sportsman", but someone fishing for bass in NY is the freakin' devil and a poor sportsman. I know, I know....Its the law. In my heart of hearts, however, I vehemently believe that the true spirit of the law, when it was originally drafted, was not to prevent catch n release fishermen from bass fishing. In fact, in the dark ages the concept of catch n release fishing probably didn't even exist!!!

When everyone around you can do something and you cannot, you have to start asking your state what it is thinking about!

By the way, there are alot of 'bad sportsmen' on this site; probably as many as drive at least 56 in a 55! LOL!

WNY, enjoy your perch fishing today. If we had perch fishing that good, I'd being doing it too!!!!

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Posted by Barry on 04-26-2003 07:33 AM:

Way back in February some of us went Ice fishing in Mahopac. One person in the party was lucky enough to land a beautiful Smallie through the ice. We were not targeting bass at all. Does this make him less than a sportsman because a bass took his offering?
John your notice on the old board was about discussing actually fishing for bass out of season. Which I do agree with, my only question is, If I go out tomorrow to fish for panfish (perch, bluegills, crappie etc) using small spinner baits Beetle Spins and Pan fish grubs and I catch a bass or pickeral have I broken the law? I have not specifically targeted that species. I am not using Buzz Baits or Jig and Pig just happened to get lucky or unlucky depending on your point of view and the mood of the DEC officer. I think the only way to prevent this is to either change the regulations or not allow anyone on any body of water until the season opens. And it would have to be all bodies of water. there are lakes where both bass and trout exist. So if you are trout fishing and catch a bass even though you were trout fishing and you immediatly released it you are (a) not a sportsman and (b) have broken the law. I believe there has to be a certain amount of discretion used by ALL parties. Yes I do believe in strict regulations to control harvesting. But I also believe in some sort of better interpetation as to intentional targeting and accidental bycatch.

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Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-26-2003 07:43 AM:

Barry, that is exactly what they do in NJ to protect the Spring Trout Stocking. In lakes that are not designated "holdover" lakes, trout stocked lakes are closed for a period of 2-3 weeks to ALL fishing!!!! This makes it very clear. In lakes where there are holdover trout, fishing is still allowed.

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Posted by Hooked Solid on 04-26-2003 09:14 AM:

One other point,If you do get caught and have your liscense revoked,forget about fishing Tx's and club events and such.My club does require a valid fishing liscense to fish all tx's,I'm sure everyone elses does too. Would be a shame to wait all winter for the tx season to start and miss out...><>...HS

Posted by Gregg on 04-26-2003 10:21 AM:

Should we only follow the rules in sports

I like to remind you, It's against the law to cross the street in the middle, you must go to the conner and WAIT for the light.
It's the law
Not that I see this happen in NYC much but it is the LAW.
All you "Sportsmen" will be crossing at the conner right!

Point is there is a lot of laws on the books that are outdated that no one pays any attention to or enforces!

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Posted by Barry on 04-26-2003 10:24 AM:

Paul you are right. The question goes back to intent. if I am out there specfically fishing for panfish and I hook a out of season spieces, have I broken the law? If so then the only way out is to close the lakes to all fishing for any spieces until the first season opens and close them when the first season ends. That would paint the gray area to black and white and would also hopefully deter the harvesters.

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Posted by maximus10k on 04-26-2003 11:11 AM:

Has anybody taken advantage of Blydenburgh. They have a no kill season Dec 1st to 1st sat. in june.

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Posted by Lpbassman on 04-26-2003 03:04 PM:

Maximus,
Thanks for that bit of info. I didnot realize that Blydenburg was open with a no kill provision pfior tp the 3rd Saturday in June. Have they started renting boats there yet?

As for the law goes, I think it high time that NY changes its laws on the closed season for bass and institutes a "No kill--catch and release season from perhaps April 1st or 15th until the 3rd Saturday in June. This sems to work just fine in New Jersey and Connecticut. Time for a change.

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Posted by wnybassman on 04-26-2003 06:01 PM:

Barry, incidental catches do not count. We were fishing perch today with very small 1/16 ounce hair jigs tipped with minnows, and of coarse we caught a few incidental bass among the 100+ perch. How can you help it? The fact is we were not targeting them (or "fishing" for them as the DEC regs state), and we were also not fishing for perch with 3/4 ounce spinnerbaits or 1 ounce jig-n-pigs. Once pike an pickerel opens next weekend, the fine line becomes even finer.

Huge, I feel as strongly about my position as you do about yours. There are always two sides to every topic.

If I decided I couldn't wait anymore, and went targting bass before the season opens....well.....my wife calls that being pretty selfish. She says most of us bass fishermen are fairly selfish at times anyway (ok ok, all the time)

Do I think the law should be changed? Who knows? I have seen convincing data from both sides, and the fact of the matter is I am not a scientist and really should have no say in the matter. I can only hope the state fisheries biologists make their decisions based on hard evidence, and not by the "money talks" means.

What I do know though, is most touring pros love to come to New York to bask in its awesome bass fishery. The places they usually travel to typically do not have seasons, and we do. Hmmmm, makes you think that we may have been doing something right in this state all these years!

Posted by bassinbilly on 04-26-2003 06:53 PM:

NJ 2003 freshwater fishing regs

This comes from the New jersey DEP web site:

Posted by Barry on 04-26-2003 06:56 PM:

My point exactly I would NEVER repeat NEVER target a spieces that is out of season. I was wondering about how to avoid or what is the regulations on incidental by-catch. As far as I can tell we are back to the same options (A) have a release only season or (B) shut down all bodies of water until the season opens. I would like to see Bass have the same game fish status as Sturgeon which is release only. I guess that will not happen because the spieces has not been brought to the brink of extinction. Years back there was a moratorium on striped bass. In North Carolina you can only keep 1 red drum per day between 18 and 28 inches all others must be released (at least that was the regulation when I was living there) Strangely enough I would welcome seeing more DEC involvment I would think that might help with the harvesters.
Barry

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Posted by Bass Rat on 04-26-2003 07:52 PM:

Barry, that would mean bye-bye tournament fishing.

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-27-2003 07:58 AM:

quote:

Hmmmm, makes you think that we may have been doing something right in this state all these years!

Sometimes we like to infer cause and effect relationships!!!!!.

The only way you could really see if the close season causes the fishing to be great, is to have a couple of years of catch n release fishing during the spawn!!! LOL! Then you can compare.

Besides, I have fished on Oneida in July and the fish were still on beds! Maybe the DEC should extend the closed season in the Northern areas of the state! LOL!

I really do respect your opinion, however, to imply that others (and there are alot) that don't share your opinion are poor sportsman is a little much. I think they would rather be called law breakers!

We agree to disagree!

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Posted by JOHN G on 04-27-2003 08:23 AM:

Despite my stance and policy on this whole issue, I have let everyone blow off some steam on this subject with the newer board.....

for all the "sportsmen" out there, God bless you all.....for all the scalwags like me out there, watch your back! LOL....

JOHN G

Posted by wnybassman on 04-27-2003 08:49 AM:

Thanks John.

Every year I tell myself I will not get into this debate again, every year I do, and every year I wish that I hadn't

There is obviously no "clear cut" solution to this issue, and whatever the state decides to do in the future, if anything, we will still bitch about it anyway LOL!

Oh well, life goes on!

Posted by JOHN G on 04-27-2003 08:58 AM:

I realize that Noel, and that is why many times these things degenerate into nasty arguments, because of the very thing you just brought up.....

I teased you about your "stance" on another post, about Honeyoye.......

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Posted by bassinbilly on 04-27-2003 09:54 AM:

Intresting facts

Control of Fishing Rights
Because of the economic importance of the industry, numerous disputes have developed over fishing rights. Increasingly concerns about overfishing, pollution, and declining fish catches have forced governments to pass measures designed to protect and conserve this resource. In the United States, domestic fisheries are generally governed by state regulations, except where the Constitution provides for national control as a result of the treaty-making power and the regulation of navigation, customs, and interstate commerce. State fishery legislation is generally designed to protect the fisheries by regulating the way fish are caught, imposing catch limits, closing some waters to commercial fishing, reducing the times when fishing is legal, and protecting certain species. National governments generally restrict fishing rights within territorial waters to citizens and may establish jurisdiction over portions of the open sea, but the right to take products from the high seas is a subject for international agreements.

Posted by joe p on 04-27-2003 09:34 PM:

the next Question:

Ask yourself this....if there was NO closed season at all for bass in NY state...

would you fish for bass during spawning season?

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-27-2003 09:44 PM:

Joe, what kind of easy question is that? LOL! In Jersey, I fish for them all year which includes spawning season. If it is good enough for the Bassmaster Circuit, it is good enough for me!

I think a better question is "Are your really not fishing for the health of the sport during the closed season, or are you just scared of the ramifications if your caught?"

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Posted by joe p on 04-27-2003 09:46 PM:

yes..easy it is!

Just want to end the hypocrisy, John...Im on your side...

joe

Posted by HugeFish4 on 04-27-2003 09:55 PM:

Joe, I didn't think it was directed at me. Just another chance for me to shoot my mouth off! LOL!

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Posted by joe p on 04-27-2003 10:02 PM:

jacking up posts, Hugh?

...boring Sunday night.....LOL