Posted by fishEguy on 2003 AM:
Message For "peta"
PETA, your debates,
arguments, and OPINIONS were over before they ever started..........
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have DOMINION over the fish of the sea , and over the fowl
of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over EVERY
creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth,and subdue it: and have Dominion over
the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing
that moveth upon the earth.
Genesis 9
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast
of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the
earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; INTO YOUR HAND ARE THEY
DELIVERED.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the
green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall
ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of
every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every
man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth MAN'S blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
for in the image of God made he man.
Michael
__________________
JOHN 3:3
KJV
Posted by Marty on 2003 PM:
I am not a religious
person and the Bible is not part of my book collection. But of course, Man does
have dominion over all other animals. However, we have a moral obligation to
not inflict undue pain and suffering upon them.
Animal use, abuse and cruelty is rampant in this country and throughout the
world. Without getting into detail, I would classify animal use into three
broad categories:
1. Those uses which I accept.
2. Those uses which I don't like but would not try to outlaw.
3. Those uses which I would want outlawed.
Which brings us to PETA. They are regularly vilified on fishing forums, hardly
surprising, since they want to outlaw our passion. Their tactics are
outrageous, shocking, offensive and sometimes illegal. They also are engaged in
activities which do not make headlines or the 6:00 news.
So I can't hate PETA 100%, because when you get past the headlines, they are
fighting animal abuse in my category 3 above, and I'm glad that somebody is
willing to step up and fight the battles that are worth fighting.
Posted by Bass Rat on 2003 PM:
quote:
Originally
posted by Marty
So I can't hate PETA 100%
That's OK Marty, cause
I can.
__________________
bass,bass,baby!
Posted by bobn on 2003 PM:
i had surf and turf tonite-medications
were taken for health reasons- and our lives are better for the research-and i ain't
gonna apologize for it-
i would bet my bottom dollar that many of the hard line peta types or their
loved ones are on some kind of medication-where the hell do they think the
research came from?
all of a sudden this freak group comes out of nowhere and wants to impose their
will on the rest of the country/world-
light up the bbq-i'm gonna have another cheeze burger w/bacon-gimme a hot dog
on the side-bobn--3/1--9:15pm
ps it's a good thing i don't like fish or i would be eating them too-i love
meat protein!!!!!!!!
Posted by mikeD in NYC on 2003 PM:
marty... i hear what you're saying, but are they really helping the cause?... look at them!.... what level-minded person can take them seriously?... their ludicrous and offensive ad campaigns are only fueling their opposition and alienating clear-headed members who may actually be for the "ethical treatment of animals".... they are a joke of an organization who are intoxicated by their own publicity... they remind me of those fanatical anti-abortionists who bomb clinics... both groups should get together, move to their own island, screw eachother and have rat loving vegan babies!.... then we'll see who's loving life!
__________________
Mike D in NYC
Webmaster NYBI
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
check out your NYBASS buddies at: NYBASS_ILLUSTRATED
---------------------------------
Posted by barneyfish on 2003 PM:
I'm new here but I'm with
Marty.
And here's some more fun stuff from the Bible! I sure hope Fisheguy doesn't try
to take away my bacon...
NO PORK!
11:7 And the swine, because he parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, but cheweth
not the cud, he is unclean unto you. 11:8 Of their flesh ye shall not eat, and
their carcasses ye shall not touch; they are unclean unto you.
NO OYSTERS!
11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of
all that move in the waters, and of all the living creatures that are in the
waters, they are an abomination unto you, 11:11 and they shall be an
abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh
NO SHAVING!
19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of
your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
And the NEW TESTAMENT!
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.
Posted by JOHN G on 2003 PM:
Barney, welcome here and
some nice quotes...
Isn't it fun to extract what we want from the bible to make a point, Hell, I do
it all the time! LOL.....
I understand where Marty is coming from, and I also in my heart of hearts do
believe that we have an obligation not to be unusually cruel to other living
creatures...
PETA however, strikes me as a extremist group, fringe, and capable as they have
shown as doing extreme things. ( like letting loose all of those minks that
dies in the wilderness anyway)....
It would not surprise me in the least, if members of PETA started shooting
certain people, just as the anti abortion extemist have shot doctors involved
with abortion.
JOHN G
__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one
another"
---------------------------------
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Posted by fishEguy on 2003 AM:
Jeez guys, I thought I
was on a board for bass fishing, not PETA.com
MOST Nybass members and sportsman everywhere would agree that animal cruelty is
wrong. Nobody's arguing with that. But walking a dog with a leash is cruelty to
these people!
But the "real" issue's behind peta go way beyond that. Funny how peta
has a problem with harm to animals, but they have no problem harming fellow
humans to further their "cause" if that's what it takes...(and we've
all seen them do it, ON CAMERA, then deny it!).....
They place the lives of animals over the lives of people........."exuse
me" if I disagree with that.
If more people in this world worried more about the "ethical"
treatment of humans, we wouldn't live in a world full of humans that are
animals.
Many people out there whine and complain about the movements started by these
organizations, but don't do anything but that, "whine and complain".
I wrote this thread and the biblical references in hopes that it might change
the mindset of even one fanatical extremist who reads it. The less supporters
they have, they less power they have.
And for those of you who are offended by or disagree with me utilizing the
bible to make a point to these people, what are YOU doing to help combat their
influence besides hiding behind your computer and "whining and
complaining" and mocking the bible or those of us who use it as a
reference .
"I am not a religious person and the Bible is not part of my book
collection. But of course, Man does have dominion over all other animals."
Marty,
With all do respect to the above comment, if you don't believe the bible, then
who told you man has dominion and why do you believe that it's true?
Barney,
Welcome.
Nice try, but I'm not the one telling you not to eat your bacon, God is. Even
the government and medical community will tell you that pork and scaleless fish
(ex:catfish, Lobster) will lead to all kinds of disease. If you want to eat em',
go ahead, just don't blame God if you get heart disease. If he didn't love us,
he wouldn't care if we ate it.
"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar
the corners of thy beard."
Learn the WHOLE bible "in context" and you'd understand what that
verse is saying.
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto
you."
I don't recall "judging" anyone in the my original message, I simply
stated some scripture concerning man's dominion over animals.
John,
Some of you may not agree with my usage of scripture to fight against these
fanatics, but just remember I'm on your side here man. I just want to help make
sure these people don't take away my right and the right of my fellow
enthusiasts to enjoy the great outdoors.
As I write this I am watching Larry Dahlberg catch big ol'
Peacocks!............having said that:
.........
Michael
__________________
JOHN 3:3
KJV
Posted by Marty on 2003 PM:
quote:
Originally posted by fishEguy
"I am not a religious person and the Bible is not part of my book
collection. But of course, Man does have dominion over all other animals."
Marty,
With all do respect to the above comment, if you don't believe the bible, then who
told you man has dominion and why do you believe that it's true?
fishEguy, I don't know if that's a serious question or not, but I'm not
interested in a theological discussion. My keen powers of observation tell me
that we're torturing animals, not the reverse, and that bulls don't have a
sport called "manfighting."
For the rest of you, just to clarify, I'm not defending PETA's tactics. My
point was that I support that portion of their agenda that is fighting the
cruelest forms of animal abuse, therefore, there is some ambivalence in my
feelings toward the organization.
Posted by bobn on 2003 PM:
maybe peta should take
their road show to spain-see how well received they would be-only in the good
old usa is such BS tolerated-instead of spray painting old ladies with fur
coats why don't they go and straighten out hells angels with their leather everything?bobn--3/2--9:10pm--
ps what about the running of the bulls?-sometimes revenge is sweet!
Posted by fishEguy on 2003 PM:
Marty,
Sorry man, I'm not looking to have a discussion or debate either. And I do hear
where your coming from and agree totally about senseless things like "bull
fighting" and the such......
. My problem is that their motives and objectives
go FAR beyond stopping "animal cruelty".
Bobn
maybe peta should take their road show to spain-see how well received they
would be-only in the good old usa is such BS tolerated
So true................
__________________
JOHN 3:3
KJV
Posted by Scott E. on 2003 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by MartyAnimal use, abuse and cruelty is rampant in this country and throughout the world.
What do you consider abuse and cruelty that as you say is so rampant in this
country? The medical testing of drugs and chemicals on animals, rodeos,
horse/dog races, horse/dog shows, raising livestock, animal farming for fur,
leather and other goods, having a cat/dog or any other animal as a pet, circus
animals, fishing, hunting and trapping as this is what PETA calls cruelty and
abuse.
Now throughout the world much of what we call cruel or abusive to animals has
gone on for centuries and is part of many countries, religions or cultures
traditions, what gives you or any group the right to judge their traditions?
quote:
]Originally
posted by MartyI would classify animal use into three broad categories:
1. Those uses which I accept.
2. Those uses which I don't like but would not try to outlaw.
3. Those uses which I would want outlawed.
In category #2 I would really like you to explain it to me, what uses don't you
like but would not try to outlaw?
I 100% hate PETA and such groups, as all would like to see humans not interact
with animals what so ever, but none actually do anything to help animals except
protests, advertise and lobby on state and federal levels, none actually take
the money from donations and buy land or use it to help or save the habitat in
which many endangered species live. PETA, HSUS and a few other splinter groups
actually donate much of their money to help no one but domestic terrorist
groups like the ALF(Animal Liberation Front), who have bombed fast food
restaurants like McDonalds as well as animal testing labs, burnt and vandalized
housing developments, set domesticated animals free on fur and livestock farms
so the animals could starve to death in the wild. All these things PETA and the
others would rather we all didn't know about, their acts of cruelty towards
humans and animals alike.
Do I think there are mistreatments of animals on fur/livestock farms? Yes I do
but it is not something that is widespread, farmers look to these animals for
income, the better the animal is treated, fed and taken care of the better the
quality of the animal, the higher the income for the farmer, but the way PETA
sees it as long as an animal is used for income it is being abused and exploited.
I have listened to and have read their arguments about lab animals also, that
animal testing serves no real purpose and that how can a simple animal like a
rat tell us what a medicine or chemicals will do to our bodies, because like
humans they have similiar organs that have the same functions and do to their
size, matabolism and lifespan we need not wait many years to find out that some
drug or chemical we may use daily will make us ill or even cause death.
You may want to rethink your stance about PETA after visiting this site and
reading some of the articles: http://www.animalrights.net/
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted by HookUp on 2003 AM:
Got beer?
I just let them show
their intellegence by their actions:
1. Milk is bad for babies, that's why Wisconsin should change their national drink from milk to beer.
2. Attacking Mothers Against Drunk Drivers by going into colleges and lecturing
on the virtues of beer.
3. Comparing the slaughter of the Jews during the holocaust to the slaughtering
of cattle.
4. Pamela Anderson as a spokesperson? It's a common rumor that even she eats meat.
I had some PETA people spiking my boat ramp with nails. Instead of taking them
on myself, I decided to do the right thing. I saw some young, holigan type jet-skiers
just getting ready to lauch. Now, for those that know me, I'm not a fan of the
jet-skiers. I just went up to the tatooed, pierced jet-skiers and pointed out
the environmental nazies spiking the boat ramp because their skies were
polluting the river w/ two-stroke oil. Let's just say those PETA people picked
up every nail they 'dropped'. It wasn't pretty!
Posted by Charlie on 2003 PM:
We are animals too!
I don't see any group fighting for the rights of the American children in Alabama, Kentucky or Kansas who have no shoes, no school, no
clean clothes and no "real" bed to sleep in!
Special interest groups who "vote" politicians into office then
demand vast amounts of our tax dollars for pathetic research need to be
disbanded and the elected official removed from office!
These groups are slowly killing us ALL financially and our elected officials
conveniently ignore the afore mentioned kids who suffer cruel and un-neccessary
hardships. However, it is OK to be spending our tax dollars on these humanitarian
"leeches" in the giuse of "animal protection" so that they
can "prance" around in fish costume and destroy public property....
Somebody explain the logic?
Charlie
__________________
Naturalized American (yeah baby)Tournament Angler, Journalist and New York
State Guide # 2803
Occasional Tournament Director!
"Come with me and I will make you Fishers of Men"
Posted by Scott E. on 2003 PM:
quote:
Originally
posted by Charlie
I don't see any group fighting for the rights of the American children in Alabama, Kentucky or Kansas who have no shoes, no school, no
clean clothes and no "real" bed to sleep in!
Special interest groups who "vote" politicians into office then
demand vast amounts of our tax dollars for pathetic research need to be
disbanded and the elected official removed from office!
Somebody explain the logic?
Charlie
Charlie,
I agree as one of the wealthiest nations in the world you would think under
privileged kids in the USA would not exsist, just go to the homeless shelters
in NYC and in many other innercities as well, no one is protesting for them.
The way I see it no group or business should be allowed to donate to the war
chests of a political candidate, it should come from idividuals and be limited
to one donation of $100 per person, than maybe this country can go back to being
"For the people by the people" it would also get rid some of those
annoying political ads on TV and radio.
Logic??? We are speaking about animal rights groups correct
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted by Marty on 2003 PM:
quote:
Originally
posted by Scott E.
What do you consider abuse and cruelty that as you say is so rampant in this
country? The medical testing of drugs and chemicals on animals, rodeos,
horse/dog races, horse/dog shows, raising livestock, animal farming for fur,
leather and other goods, having a cat/dog or any other animal as a pet, circus
animals, fishing, hunting and trapping as this is what PETA calls cruelty and
abuse.
Many, if not most, of the things you listed involve abuse and cruelty,
depending on the operator of the facility. If veal disappeared as a food, I
would not mind at all. The idea of a calf spending its whole life in a cage so
small that it can't even turn around constitutes cruelty to my way of thinking.
So does keeping fur-bearing animals in cramped quarters, then electrocuting
them by shoving a metal rod up their butt.
A few months ago, six polar bears were "rescued" from a traveling
Mexican circus. These animals were held in cramped quarters, fed a lousy diet,
had no access to pools and were sometimes subjected to temperatures 90° hotter
than what they're used to. Am I glad they were removed and sent to zoos for
rehab? You bet I am.
During the holiday season, I caught the latter part of a TV interview with a
woman who ran a turkey farm. As she said, these birds have only one bad day.
During their lives, they are free to run around, flap their wings and do
whatever turkeys do. I'd certainly rather my bird came from this farm rather
than one where they are held in tiny cages.
As I've said in previous posts, I do not support the outrageous tactics of the various
groups. I do support their legal, non-violent tactics in fighting the practices
that I find unnecessarily cruel.
If I can muster up sufficient will power, this will be my last message in this
thread.
Posted by Scott E. on 2003 PM:
Marty, I am
sorry if you think I am trying to attack or belittle you
You are entitled to your
opinion as am I, we are Americans after all and have our rights to them, but if
they are uneducated opinions or opinions that have been swayed without seeing
or reading the other side than they are flawed opinions.
I feel though as a sportsman and one who despises PETA not just for what they
preach against the sports I love and have done almost all my life but for the
acts of cruelty against human beings and many of the animals they say they are
saving, on these points I have a responsibility or obligation to try to educate
you on a few things you have wrong.
I am going to guess you have visited the PETA website a few too many times and
I will ask you to please visit the website I posted in my last post to you,
there you will learn what PETA and many other animal rights groups don't want
you to know.
It is http://www.animalrights.net
First off veal calves Do Not spend their lives in cages but in stalls
about the same size stall as a horse stall, please read and get the facts
straight.
Housing
of veal calves
Again please read and learn the facts, farmed furbearing animals are not elctrocuted
in any such way, again a PETA myth. Please think about it, it would make the
hide useless as it would be burnt???
Humane
euthanasia of farmed furbearing animals
As far as the polar bears go, I hate to see any wild animal kept in captivity
but do you think the zoo will be much better, is it their environment, are they
hunting for their food like they should be??? Were they really rescued??? I
also don't think they could survive on their own either, even if they are
rehabilitated.
Take a look at the killer whale or orca which ever you prefer, Kaiko that
starred in the movie Free Willy, PETA and other groups fought to have the sea
mammal freed, once free of his small pool he spent almost 5 years being
rehabilitated, then set free was not seen or heard from in almost 2 years, he
has now come back, allienated by his own pod as best they can figure and has
turned to humans again.
As with the turkey woman your talking about a very high percentage of the
livestock farmers are on the up and up and don't treat their animals cruelly,
most have great pride in their animals and how they take care of them, that is
something you may look at as a business and in all sense of the word it is but
many like you and I would not want to put in the hours at our businesses those
people put into their animals, I have nothing but respect for those people.
Please I am asking you to respond, if you feel I am attacking you in any way I
am sorry, again this is not my intention and I ask that anyone who reads this
post not attack you either.
I am going to be a bit gruff in my analogy but your in a dangerous position, sorta
being on the fence and all, just becareful sometimes you get your b
s pinched trying to
swing your leg over and usually you end up on the side you were trying to
leave, on your knees and holding them, only now your speaking in a higher vocal
range. Moral to the story, never sit on a fence be either on one side or
another.
Good luck and again Marty, I do hope you read and respond.
__________________
Nothing sets a person so far out of the devil's reach as humility.
Jonathan Edwards
---
Scott E.
scotte@pikeonline.net
Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:
as Always, when Scott E
makes a point or brings anything up, he manages to find these incredible web
sites to support what he is saying........
very interesting thread......as long as it remains intelligent and civil as it
is now, can stick around...
JOHN G
__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one
another"
---------------------------------
> email
- DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
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Quote: "coming
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Posted by Marty on 2003 PM:
PETA
"Marty, I am sorry
if you think I am trying to attack or belittle you"
I don't think that at all, Scott. Yes, I have visited the PETA site, but I have
gotten information about animal abuse from traditional news sources. It seems
far too often around here that we are reading stories about people arrested for
various forms of animal cruelty.
Also, I know how hard it can be to run a business profitably, and I'm positive
that many--perhaps not all-- farmers and ranchers are not going to incur
additional expense just for the sake of treating animals better.
I also made a visit to the site you mentioned. Just like I don't believe
everything on PETA's site, I don't believe everything on that site either. He
has an agenda too, and is not going to write about anything good that an animal
rights group does. I learned a long time ago that EVERY advocacy
organization is going to put their own spin on things, whether it's PETA, the
site you referenced, the ACLU, NRA, Republicans, Democrats, or whoever.
Well, I'm glad we could air our differences without name-calling, which is not
always the case on some forums. Now I just hope I can hold out for another 3
1/2 months for the bass opener so I can commit some animal abuse on my favorite
fish!
Posted by billstea on 2003 PM:
peta complains to
Yasir Arafat
A couple of weeks ago, an official of PETA wrote a letter to Yasir Arafat complaining because the Palistinens loaded up a donkey with explosives, sent it into Israeli territory, and blew it up. They admonished Arafat telling him to keep animals out of the war. They didn't seem to have a problem with the attempt by the Palestinens to kill civilians, they were just upset that a donkey was blown up.
Posted by BARRY on 2003 PM:
PETA =People Eating Tasty Animals
Just trying to lighten it up boys and girls
__________________
Hello I must be going.
Posted by fishEguy on 2003 PM:
"They didn't seem
to have a problem with the attempt by the Palestinens to kill civilians, they
were just upset that a donkey was blown up."
EXACTLY!
"PETA =People Eating Tasty Animals"
Barry,
lol......Ya had me laughing the first time and now ya got me laughing
again!........
__________________
JOHN 3:3
KJV
Posted by JOHN G on 2003 AM:
and it is on this nice
interjection of humor that we will end this discussion and walk away from it
while the going is good! LOL...
I will close the thread, but leave it here.....
again, thanks to all for a nice controlled argument..
JOHN G
__________________
"and a new Commandment I shall give you.....that you shall love one
another"
---------------------------------
> email
- DrBass2@aol.com
> Forum Moderator aka: Head Honcho
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Quote: "coming
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